10 ms·

> How does that even happen? Fraud and abuse. Treating Amazon like a mail-in library for books, tools, and other products is the easiest way. Returning a hug

> How does that even happen? Fraud and abuse. Treating Amazon like a mail-in library for books, tools, and other products is the easiest way. Returning a huge number of your orders regardless of other forms of abuse. Contesting valid CC charges. Etc. > I posit that someone who's banned from shopping at AMZN is more dangerous than someone who plays card games with a dark sense of humor. I wouldn't necessarily say "dangerous". Maybe "untrustworthy" or "lacking in good judgement" or "lacking a strong moral compass".

crawfordcomeaux 10y ago
Instead of trying to judge the person, how about we conceive of behaviors? They could be someone who cycles in and out of addictive or manic shopping. The word that comes to mind for me there is "tragic".
- Waterluvian 10y ago
  People being assholes, dicks, or just plain evil is probably the most exceptional of exceptions. It's considerably more likely that there's a much more complicated explanation that deserves understanding and compassion.
  - eloel 10y ago
    some people do bad stuff, wake the fuck up.
- throwaway729 10y ago
  Judgmental characterizations aren't necessarily inconsistent with empathy and compassion. Especially in the context of an LEO. I probably wouldn't blindly trust someone who cycles in and out of addictive or manic shopping with a large line of credit or with carte blanc access to a lot of other people's valuables. Just because their addiction makes them untrustworthy doesn't mean they're a bad person. Also, using Amazon as a library isn't necessarily indicative of manic shopping. It could just be that the person is acting in their own self interest and not taking into account the effects of their actions on Amazon's other customers. Canceling valid CC charges has a lot of explanations -- maybe the person is just a habitual liar in way that's best thought of in a medical context. But in all of these cases, empathy and judgement can go hand-in-hand.
  - crawfordcomeaux 10y ago
    I completely agree. In the future, I'd rather say I prefer to seek non-judgmental explanations before bringing judgment to the table, as it allows me to identify more potential scenarios.
- illirik 10y ago
  I have bipolar disorder, and many (if not most) people with bipolar shop to excess during manic phases. One person in my therapy group spends several thousand dollars on clothing, shoes, technology, etc. in a single day roughly twice per year, and then brings it all back the next day when he realizes that he cannot afford it all. He's banned from J. Crew and Brooks Brothers. I've done similar things (although not to that scale). Ultimately, there can be many reasons for strange or even potentially harmful behavior that one cannot easily control.
  - jliptzin 10y ago
    How do they enforce that ban? Do they check the ID of every shopper who makes a purchase?
    - CodeWriter23 10y ago
      Facial recognition + security guard
      - caiowilsonb 10y ago
        unfeasible.
    - bunderbunder 10y ago
      Set up the POS machines to refuse to process purchases using certain credit card numbers, or based on the name associated with the card, I'm guessing.
      - weaksauce 10y ago
        > or based on the name associated with the card doubtful that that is a strategy or else there would be a ban on common names.
    - bardworx 10y ago
      Multi-level process since a "ban" in online world is difficult to achieve: 1. Set a cookie (lowest form since cookies get cleaned/deleted, but useful) 2. Recognize username + email address (tied to cookie so multiple usernames/emails can be used) 3. Address - physical shipping address is difficult to constantly change (for a normal person, scammers that use drop addresses are a different story all together) 4. Credit Card number w/associated billing address. The billing address is also difficult to constantly change and would correspond to shipping address. There are additional steps a company can take, if necessary.
chrisper 10y ago
>Treating Amazon like a mail-in library for books, tools, and other products is the easiest way. Isn't that part of their business? I order stuff to try it out and if it turns out it sucks, I send it back. Isn't that the point of the online store to trump the disadvantage that I cannot try things out without buying them first? EDIT: It turns out you have to do quite some abuse there and they even send you warning emails. So it won't just happen out of the blue. EDIT2: What's with the downvotes? Here I was thinking this community is better than Reddit for certain things, but I guess I was wrong.
- detaro 10y ago
  Up until some amount. Once it becomes clear that you're more trouble than profit, they'll cut you off (and if they are unlucky, your neighbors as well). Amazon seems to bit all over the place with that, if media reports are to be believed.
  - chrisper 10y ago
    I guess it has to be quite excessive (e.g. ordering tens of things every day).
    - detaro 10y ago
      Here is an example with ~10% returns, although of course no information what specific pattern (e.g. maybe a lot towards the end, or something like "bought 8 expensive things to compare with the intend of returning 7"). https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/18/banned-by-amazon-returning-faulty-goods-blocked-credit-balance https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/18/banned-by-amaz... What's IMHO worse is that they remove Kindle access etc as well (I think here in Germany they've been sucessfully sued for that, so not sure if they still do it)
      - chrisper 10y ago
        Yes. I also use Amazon Cloud Drive for my external backups. So if they ban me from the store, they would also ban me from accessing my backups.
wjeoifijoj 10y ago
Don't assume. I got banned from AliExpress after reading a post on here about the ridiculous free shipping from China, making an account, and buying my friend sexy underwear for $1. Thanks HackerNews.
- kaybe 10y ago
  What did you get banned for? I've been ordering a bunch of $1 things from Ebay the last few months and they all came through without trouble (from China with free shipping).
- desireco42 10y ago
  I bought a lot of below dollar items on AliExpress, no problems whatsoever. Why did you get banned for real? Also, AliExpress is like second coming of Amazon.
  - rohmish 10y ago
    Now I am curious, What's the issue if the list price says that it is >$1?

crawfordcomeaux 10y ago

Instead of trying to judge the person, how about we conceive of behaviors? They could be someone who cycles in and out of addictive or manic shopping. The word that comes to mind for me there is "tragic".

Waterluvian 10y ago
People being assholes, dicks, or just plain evil is probably the most exceptional of exceptions. It's considerably more likely that there's a much more complicated explanation that deserves understanding and compassion.
- eloel 10y ago
  some people do bad stuff, wake the fuck up.
throwaway729 10y ago
Judgmental characterizations aren't necessarily inconsistent with empathy and compassion. Especially in the context of an LEO. I probably wouldn't blindly trust someone who cycles in and out of addictive or manic shopping with a large line of credit or with carte blanc access to a lot of other people's valuables. Just because their addiction makes them untrustworthy doesn't mean they're a bad person. Also, using Amazon as a library isn't necessarily indicative of manic shopping. It could just be that the person is acting in their own self interest and not taking into account the effects of their actions on Amazon's other customers. Canceling valid CC charges has a lot of explanations -- maybe the person is just a habitual liar in way that's best thought of in a medical context. But in all of these cases, empathy and judgement can go hand-in-hand.
- crawfordcomeaux 10y ago
  I completely agree. In the future, I'd rather say I prefer to seek non-judgmental explanations before bringing judgment to the table, as it allows me to identify more potential scenarios.
illirik 10y ago
I have bipolar disorder, and many (if not most) people with bipolar shop to excess during manic phases. One person in my therapy group spends several thousand dollars on clothing, shoes, technology, etc. in a single day roughly twice per year, and then brings it all back the next day when he realizes that he cannot afford it all. He's banned from J. Crew and Brooks Brothers. I've done similar things (although not to that scale). Ultimately, there can be many reasons for strange or even potentially harmful behavior that one cannot easily control.
- jliptzin 10y ago
  How do they enforce that ban? Do they check the ID of every shopper who makes a purchase?
  - CodeWriter23 10y ago
    Facial recognition + security guard
    - caiowilsonb 10y ago
      unfeasible.
  - bunderbunder 10y ago
    Set up the POS machines to refuse to process purchases using certain credit card numbers, or based on the name associated with the card, I'm guessing.
    - weaksauce 10y ago
      > or based on the name associated with the card doubtful that that is a strategy or else there would be a ban on common names.
  - bardworx 10y ago
    Multi-level process since a "ban" in online world is difficult to achieve: 1. Set a cookie (lowest form since cookies get cleaned/deleted, but useful) 2. Recognize username + email address (tied to cookie so multiple usernames/emails can be used) 3. Address - physical shipping address is difficult to constantly change (for a normal person, scammers that use drop addresses are a different story all together) 4. Credit Card number w/associated billing address. The billing address is also difficult to constantly change and would correspond to shipping address. There are additional steps a company can take, if necessary.

chrisper 10y ago

>Treating Amazon like a mail-in library for books, tools, and other products is the easiest way. Isn't that part of their business? I order stuff to try it out and if it turns out it sucks, I send it back. Isn't that the point of the online store to trump the disadvantage that I cannot try things out without buying them first? EDIT: It turns out you have to do quite some abuse there and they even send you warning emails. So it won't just happen out of the blue. EDIT2: What's with the downvotes? Here I was thinking this community is better than Reddit for certain things, but I guess I was wrong.

detaro 10y ago
Up until some amount. Once it becomes clear that you're more trouble than profit, they'll cut you off (and if they are unlucky, your neighbors as well). Amazon seems to bit all over the place with that, if media reports are to be believed.
- chrisper 10y ago
  I guess it has to be quite excessive (e.g. ordering tens of things every day).
  - detaro 10y ago
    Here is an example with ~10% returns, although of course no information what specific pattern (e.g. maybe a lot towards the end, or something like "bought 8 expensive things to compare with the intend of returning 7"). https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/18/banned-by-amazon-returning-faulty-goods-blocked-credit-balance https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/18/banned-by-amaz... What's IMHO worse is that they remove Kindle access etc as well (I think here in Germany they've been sucessfully sued for that, so not sure if they still do it)
    - chrisper 10y ago
      Yes. I also use Amazon Cloud Drive for my external backups. So if they ban me from the store, they would also ban me from accessing my backups.

wjeoifijoj 10y ago

Don't assume. I got banned from AliExpress after reading a post on here about the ridiculous free shipping from China, making an account, and buying my friend sexy underwear for $1. Thanks HackerNews.

kaybe 10y ago
What did you get banned for? I've been ordering a bunch of $1 things from Ebay the last few months and they all came through without trouble (from China with free shipping).
desireco42 10y ago
I bought a lot of below dollar items on AliExpress, no problems whatsoever. Why did you get banned for real? Also, AliExpress is like second coming of Amazon.
- rohmish 10y ago
  Now I am curious, What's the issue if the list price says that it is >$1?