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I'm not sure about that - designers have to build a UX that works in the real world, and sometimes there are really complicated processes that need to be expose

by dack 10y ago

I'm not sure about that - designers have to build a UX that works in the real world, and sometimes there are really complicated processes that need to be exposed in a nice way. I imagine this has similar tradeoffs as programming (i.e. difficulty in implementation, balancing power/intuitiveness)

user5994461 10y ago
As a designer, one can live exclusively in "photoshop", ignoring the complexity of the process and the reality of usage. It's not like you can "test" a drawing with a real user. As a programmer, you gotta get all the little details right or the application is not possible to use. There is no way around it, whatever is forgotten will just hit you right in your face. And last but not least. Drawing is dead easy. A programmer could design a UI in a drag&drop devtool maybe as fast as a designer. The challenge when creating an application is not the drawing of the UI but the handling of the user interactions and the data.
- angersock 10y ago
  Thank you for illustrating my (apparently unpopular) point.
- dcole2929 10y ago
  This is such a massive simplification of what a designer does it's actually amazing. You're first and last paragraphs are simply wrong. First of all a designer doesn't get to live exclusively in photoshop or some other tool. They don't get to ignore the "reality of usage". In order to be a competent designer they have to not only completely understand the problem domain, but also the given software solution and how a user can use the software to achieve the desired goal in the most concise manner. They have to worry about how to signal to users how to perform any given interaction and the overall complexity any activity has. Also they absolutely do test designs with real users. There is like a whole field of study in design around exactly this. As to your last point, drawing != designing. Designing is actually really hard. This is a problem I see with programmers all the time. The oversimplification of others contributions. Yes you can put together a UI with drag and drop tools. You can build a website with drag and drop tools too and you'll probably get the same quality as the drag and drop UI. A drag and drop design will probably have most of the various pieces. But will it be obvious what actions a user can take from any given screen? Will it properly optimize screen space, and be color correct? There are a 1001 questions that a designer has to ask that most programmers wouldn't even think to ask. There are many challenges when writing an app, and good design has proven over and over again to matter just as much to the success of a business as solid code.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    We both agree that there is a difference between a "drawer" and a designer, just like there is a difference between a "code monkey" and a developer. First paragraph. I could say all the exact same thing about a developer. Second paragraph. Yes to all your questions. I should clarify that the drag&drop tools I had in mind were for desktop applications, not web, that's a different world.
threatofrain 10y ago
Design <ought> be perfect, because you actually have a chance to do so. Design is declarative. You are defining what <ought> be. People who are studying someone's design specification shouldn't have to wonder whether your circle is <really> a circle. A designer declares a perfect circle even if when zoomed in you find bumpy pixels. Also, design in the context of a team especially ought be perfect, because your perfection will be degraded in a game of telephone. By perfect, I don't mean that your design fits the user with maximum optimality. I mean that when you draw a box, you actually mean a perfect box. When a mathematician draws a square, they are describing a perfect square. It would be a little socially blind to pick up a magnifying glass and accuse the mathematician or the designer's square to be imperfect because you find the bumpy ugliness of a 1080p monitor or a sheet of paper.
damptowel 10y ago
Design is often a victim of mutually excluding constraints, i'm not so sure it's easier to achieve perfection. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't.

by dack 10y ago

user5994461 10y ago

As a designer, one can live exclusively in "photoshop", ignoring the complexity of the process and the reality of usage. It's not like you can "test" a drawing with a real user. As a programmer, you gotta get all the little details right or the application is not possible to use. There is no way around it, whatever is forgotten will just hit you right in your face. And last but not least. Drawing is dead easy. A programmer could design a UI in a drag&drop devtool maybe as fast as a designer. The challenge when creating an application is not the drawing of the UI but the handling of the user interactions and the data.

angersock 10y ago
Thank you for illustrating my (apparently unpopular) point.
dcole2929 10y ago
This is such a massive simplification of what a designer does it's actually amazing. You're first and last paragraphs are simply wrong. First of all a designer doesn't get to live exclusively in photoshop or some other tool. They don't get to ignore the "reality of usage". In order to be a competent designer they have to not only completely understand the problem domain, but also the given software solution and how a user can use the software to achieve the desired goal in the most concise manner. They have to worry about how to signal to users how to perform any given interaction and the overall complexity any activity has. Also they absolutely do test designs with real users. There is like a whole field of study in design around exactly this. As to your last point, drawing != designing. Designing is actually really hard. This is a problem I see with programmers all the time. The oversimplification of others contributions. Yes you can put together a UI with drag and drop tools. You can build a website with drag and drop tools too and you'll probably get the same quality as the drag and drop UI. A drag and drop design will probably have most of the various pieces. But will it be obvious what actions a user can take from any given screen? Will it properly optimize screen space, and be color correct? There are a 1001 questions that a designer has to ask that most programmers wouldn't even think to ask. There are many challenges when writing an app, and good design has proven over and over again to matter just as much to the success of a business as solid code.
- user5994461 10y ago
  We both agree that there is a difference between a "drawer" and a designer, just like there is a difference between a "code monkey" and a developer. First paragraph. I could say all the exact same thing about a developer. Second paragraph. Yes to all your questions. I should clarify that the drag&drop tools I had in mind were for desktop applications, not web, that's a different world.

threatofrain 10y ago

Design <ought> be perfect, because you actually have a chance to do so. Design is declarative. You are defining what <ought> be. People who are studying someone's design specification shouldn't have to wonder whether your circle is <really> a circle. A designer declares a perfect circle even if when zoomed in you find bumpy pixels. Also, design in the context of a team especially ought be perfect, because your perfection will be degraded in a game of telephone. By perfect, I don't mean that your design fits the user with maximum optimality. I mean that when you draw a box, you actually mean a perfect box. When a mathematician draws a square, they are describing a perfect square. It would be a little socially blind to pick up a magnifying glass and accuse the mathematician or the designer's square to be imperfect because you find the bumpy ugliness of a 1080p monitor or a sheet of paper.

damptowel 10y ago

Design is often a victim of mutually excluding constraints, i'm not so sure it's easier to achieve perfection. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't.