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* "Objective+C++ is not open." Yeah? http://gcc.gnu.org/ http://gcc.gnu.org/ * "Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshi

by ptomato 16y ago

* "Objective+C++ is not open." Yeah? http://gcc.gnu.org/ http://gcc.gnu.org/ * "Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit." Alright, so point to a single Adobe Air app, for example, that looks & behaves natively. * "Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases." Did you read the article? "the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software" But hey, easy to prove wrong. Point to one mobile phone with Flash (not flash lite) support that has decent battery life. ... Oh, wait... Well, one mobile phone that has Flash support period? No?

not_an_alien 16y ago
* If the compiler being open means Objective-C is open, then Flash is open as well: http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK * We're talking about mobile applications like games being good enough, not desktop applications using native components. Please don't stray the conversation. Otherwise it's as dumb as me coming and saying iTunes should not be running on Windows. * "Comparing video decompression" - The article (wishfully) ignores the fact that 'older' (flv) video formats are transcoded on the fly to a format that can be played by hardware. This technology has been present in the player for a while - ever since Flash Lite. Requires more CPU, but it is not the same as full software playback. Also, asking for mobile phones with battery life benchmarks is bogus, since it's still not officially released, so no proof can exist. It's like saying the next OS X is inherently shit just because you haven't seen it yet.
- ptomato 16y ago
  * Well, I'm not sure what other part of Objective-C that's not "open" you would be talking about, exactly... * "We're talking about mobile applications like games being good enough, not applications using native components." Except we're not. That whole section was discussing specifically 3.3.1 and why they aren't going to allow cross-compiled apps to run on the iPhone. * "Comparing video decompression" Oh, that's not gonna have an effect on battery life, nooooo. And so what, you're saying Apple should have included something that isn't even released yet in the iPhone?
- joubert 16y ago
  Flex is not flash
  - not_an_alien 16y ago
    I won't blame you for the confusion, as the naming is mixed up, but "Flex SDK" is the command-line Flash (SWF) compiler. It's free and open source. It's used to create SWFs or SWCs. It's the same compiler the Flash IDE has built-in. I create full, rich Flash content with the Flex SDK, and has been doing it for a while. I don't compile with the Flash IDE. Not because I can't or because it's paid, but because using Flex SDK is better.
    - joubert 16y ago
      Maybe im nitpicking, but mxmlc compiles apps written using the flex sdk to flash bytecode. The flex sdk is open source yes, but the flash runtime certainly is not.
gecko 16y ago
Whether Objective-C is open is a weird discussion. The Objective-C compiler is fully GPL'd, so that's definitely open. Objective-C, though, depends on a runtime, and Apple's runtime is proprietary. While the GNU project has their Objective-C runtime, it performs markedly worse, and misses a lot of features that are available in Apple's version, including blocks, GCD-style multithreading, garbage collection, fast iterators, and more.
- wfarr 16y ago
  Mono implements a good bit of .NET, but not all of it. That doesn't make it any less of an open platform.
  - nailer 16y ago
    Really? I consider .net a closed platform, as it is controlled by a single vendor, there is no patent guarantee (as Miguel has mentioned) and the alternative implementations (like GNash does with Flash) always lag behind. (I happen to like .net, by the way, I just think it's closed.)
    - wfarr 16y ago
      .NET is a closed platform — but Mono, which does implement parts of .NET in addition to their own changes, is an open platform. All of Mono's design and implementation is transparent.
- ptomato 16y ago
  I'd note that blocks at least are open-sourced under the MIT license so there's no excuse not to include them in the runtime.
jarek 16y ago
> Well, one mobile phone that has Flash support period? No? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N900 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N900
- ez77 16y ago
  I'm just now reading the article, and as a N900 owner I second this point. Flash does really well on this smartphone.

by ptomato 16y ago

not_an_alien 16y ago

* If the compiler being open means Objective-C is open, then Flash is open as well: http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK * We're talking about mobile applications like games being good enough, not desktop applications using native components. Please don't stray the conversation. Otherwise it's as dumb as me coming and saying iTunes should not be running on Windows. * "Comparing video decompression" - The article (wishfully) ignores the fact that 'older' (flv) video formats are transcoded on the fly to a format that can be played by hardware. This technology has been present in the player for a while - ever since Flash Lite. Requires more CPU, but it is not the same as full software playback. Also, asking for mobile phones with battery life benchmarks is bogus, since it's still not officially released, so no proof can exist. It's like saying the next OS X is inherently shit just because you haven't seen it yet.

ptomato 16y ago
* Well, I'm not sure what other part of Objective-C that's not "open" you would be talking about, exactly... * "We're talking about mobile applications like games being good enough, not applications using native components." Except we're not. That whole section was discussing specifically 3.3.1 and why they aren't going to allow cross-compiled apps to run on the iPhone. * "Comparing video decompression" Oh, that's not gonna have an effect on battery life, nooooo. And so what, you're saying Apple should have included something that isn't even released yet in the iPhone?
joubert 16y ago
Flex is not flash
- not_an_alien 16y ago
  I won't blame you for the confusion, as the naming is mixed up, but "Flex SDK" is the command-line Flash (SWF) compiler. It's free and open source. It's used to create SWFs or SWCs. It's the same compiler the Flash IDE has built-in. I create full, rich Flash content with the Flex SDK, and has been doing it for a while. I don't compile with the Flash IDE. Not because I can't or because it's paid, but because using Flex SDK is better.
  - joubert 16y ago
    Maybe im nitpicking, but mxmlc compiles apps written using the flex sdk to flash bytecode. The flex sdk is open source yes, but the flash runtime certainly is not.

gecko 16y ago

Whether Objective-C is open is a weird discussion. The Objective-C compiler is fully GPL'd, so that's definitely open. Objective-C, though, depends on a runtime, and Apple's runtime is proprietary. While the GNU project has their Objective-C runtime, it performs markedly worse, and misses a lot of features that are available in Apple's version, including blocks, GCD-style multithreading, garbage collection, fast iterators, and more.

wfarr 16y ago
Mono implements a good bit of .NET, but not all of it. That doesn't make it any less of an open platform.
- nailer 16y ago
  Really? I consider .net a closed platform, as it is controlled by a single vendor, there is no patent guarantee (as Miguel has mentioned) and the alternative implementations (like GNash does with Flash) always lag behind. (I happen to like .net, by the way, I just think it's closed.)
  - wfarr 16y ago
    .NET is a closed platform — but Mono, which does implement parts of .NET in addition to their own changes, is an open platform. All of Mono's design and implementation is transparent.
ptomato 16y ago
I'd note that blocks at least are open-sourced under the MIT license so there's no excuse not to include them in the runtime.

jarek 16y ago

> Well, one mobile phone that has Flash support period? No? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N900 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N900

ez77 16y ago
I'm just now reading the article, and as a N900 owner I second this point. Flash does really well on this smartphone.