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But why? If one can prove that a party premeditated and willfully went against the terms of the contract in order to deceive the other party and profited from

But why? If one can prove that a party premeditated and willfully went against the terms of the contract in order to deceive the other party and profited from this deceit while also breaking laws, what is the legal reasoning behind calling it a breach instead of fraud?

Lazare 10y ago
Fraud is a crime; a general definition might be "deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain", but in simple terms it's lying. If you lie to someone for financial gain, it's a crime. But violating the terms of a contract is not a crime, at least in the general case. > But why? Because that's what the law says. :) > If one can prove that a party premeditated and willfully went against the terms of the contract in order to deceive the other party and profited from this deceit while also breaking laws Very, very simply: If you lied, it's fraud. If you didn't lie, then it's not fraud. It might well be some other crime, but it's not fraud, because fraud is a word that means lying. So you say: > went against the terms of the contract in order to deceive But it depends what you mean by that. If I meant to follow the contract when I sign it, but later change my mind, and you just assume I'm following it, you are deceived, but I didn't lie, and it's not fraud. If I didn't mean to follow it when I signed it then I'm lying and it's fraud. Similarly if I mean to follow it when I sign, later change my mind, and you then ask me "hey, are you following the contract?", and I say "yes" even though I'm not, then I'm lying, and it's fraud. The key element isn't whether or not you were deceived, or whether or not I actually followed the contract, but whether I lied, because that's what the crime is.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
  Man, and I thought programming had difficult edge cases :) From this post and the article you linked above, the takeaway I get is to ask everyday "Are you following the contract?" I understand the legal definition, but I gather that the layman will still think it's fraud. I guess a simple solution in that scenario would be to have a checkbox asking are you following the contract every time they login to the server. Thanks, I learned a lot from you! :D

Lazare 10y ago

Fraud is a crime; a general definition might be "deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain", but in simple terms it's lying. If you lie to someone for financial gain, it's a crime. But violating the terms of a contract is not a crime, at least in the general case. > But why? Because that's what the law says. :) > If one can prove that a party premeditated and willfully went against the terms of the contract in order to deceive the other party and profited from this deceit while also breaking laws Very, very simply: If you lied, it's fraud. If you didn't lie, then it's not fraud. It might well be some other crime, but it's not fraud, because fraud is a word that means lying. So you say: > went against the terms of the contract in order to deceive But it depends what you mean by that. If I meant to follow the contract when I sign it, but later change my mind, and you just assume I'm following it, you are deceived, but I didn't lie, and it's not fraud. If I didn't mean to follow it when I signed it then I'm lying and it's fraud. Similarly if I mean to follow it when I sign, later change my mind, and you then ask me "hey, are you following the contract?", and I say "yes" even though I'm not, then I'm lying, and it's fraud. The key element isn't whether or not you were deceived, or whether or not I actually followed the contract, but whether I lied, because that's what the crime is.

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
Man, and I thought programming had difficult edge cases :) From this post and the article you linked above, the takeaway I get is to ask everyday "Are you following the contract?" I understand the legal definition, but I gather that the layman will still think it's fraud. I guess a simple solution in that scenario would be to have a checkbox asking are you following the contract every time they login to the server. Thanks, I learned a lot from you! :D