5 ms·

It's interesting to see Steve Jobs on the FUD side of things. On the upside, at least Apple has now officially addressed the conflict. Kudos for that.

by ryoshu 17y ago

ugh 17y ago
Which arguments are FUD?
- not_an_alien 17y ago
  * Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is 'closed and proprietary': Flash is as 'closed and proprietary' as many of the technologies he's trying to portray as open, if not less. H264 is not open. Objective+C++ is not open. Flash (SWF) has a fully published spec and anyone can write tools to create, or play, SWF content, without royalties, or without having to respond to any entity. * Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit. * Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases. * Saying Adobe postponed the release dates of Flash 10.1 for smartphones: bullshit. He's repeating a story that has already been corrected on a number of places (that Flash's release was pushed to 2nd half of 2010) as fact. That he's ignoring the fact that the story was misinterpreted by one source, and simply repeating the wrong news, is staggering. FP is still bound for a release in the 1st half of 2010. * Saying "Adobe has recently added support for h264 playback": gee, I guess 2.5 years is "recently"? h264 support was added with FP 9.0.115, released in December 2007. There's a lot more, but it tends to get tiring to constantly dispel the most obvious FUD written for the general public and full of misinformation. Mactards will believe whatever they want to believe, so hey... I'll just let the platform speak for itself. In 5 years, let's see how well Apple narrow mindedness business decisions work out for them.
  - teamonkey 17y ago
    "Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world." Clearly nonsense. I'm willing to bet that there are many, many more games and entertainment apps written in Flash alone than there are on the app store.
    - bradshaw1965 17y ago
      "I'm willing to bet that there are many, many more games and entertainment apps written in Flash alone than there are on the app store." Is that a position for or against keeping flash off the iPhone, iPod and iPad?
      - teamonkey 17y ago
        Neither. It's just pointing out one of many FUD items in Steve's memo.
    - veemjeem 17y ago
      Flash has been around a bit longer than the iPhone has, so no surprise there. Flash has been around since PointCast Network, if anyone actually still remembers that.
  - ptomato 17y ago
    * "Objective+C++ is not open." Yeah? http://gcc.gnu.org/ http://gcc.gnu.org/ * "Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit." Alright, so point to a single Adobe Air app, for example, that looks & behaves natively. * "Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases." Did you read the article? "the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software" But hey, easy to prove wrong. Point to one mobile phone with Flash (not flash lite) support that has decent battery life. ... Oh, wait... Well, one mobile phone that has Flash support period? No?
- ryoshu 17y ago
  - "First, there’s “Open”." SWF is open (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/ http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/). ActionScript 3 is open (http://www.ecmascript.org/docs.php http://www.ecmascript.org/docs.php, http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/ http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/). Want the Flex SDK? Here: http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Get+Source+Code http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Get+Source+... Want a non-Adobe compiler? http://haxe.org http://haxe.org Adobe still has closed projects like Flash Builder 4 and Flash CS5. But saying that, "Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary" is false. FUD. - "Second, there’s the “full web”." h.264 is more modern than Flash's support for...? Oh, right. Flash has supported h.264 for over 2 years. FUD. - "Third, there’s reliability, security and performance." Pardon me while I go name a WAP "at&t wireless." Yes, Flash has security issues. Google mobile Safari 0day. FUD. - "Fourth, there’s battery life." As mentioned above, h.264 was adopted by Adobe years ago. FUD. - "Fifth, there’s Touch." I wrote a multi-touch Flash API for custom hardware shortly after Flash 9's release. Multi-touch works fine in Flash. Rewire some events and it's seamless. FUD. - "Sixth, the most important reason." Has Steve Jobs actually ever used Xcode? Beyond the native, crappy tools that Apple offers, some of us developers prefer to choose the tools we like to use when we write software. We like to use various languages based on what works best for us. Apple is screwing over developers and they are using Microsoft level FUD to convince us its for our own good.
  - cpr 17y ago
    Some of us old-timers (Unix v6!) are using Xcode and think it's a great toolset. Show me a better-integrated set of editors, compilers and (most important) debugging/performance analysis tools on any platform.

It's interesting to see Steve Jobs on the FUD side of things. On the upside, at least Apple has now officially addressed the conflict. Kudos for that.

by ryoshu 17y ago

It's interesting to see Steve Jobs on the FUD side of things. On the upside, at least Apple has now officially addressed the conflict. Kudos for that.

ugh 17y ago

Which arguments are FUD?

not_an_alien 17y ago
* Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is 'closed and proprietary': Flash is as 'closed and proprietary' as many of the technologies he's trying to portray as open, if not less. H264 is not open. Objective+C++ is not open. Flash (SWF) has a fully published spec and anyone can write tools to create, or play, SWF content, without royalties, or without having to respond to any entity. * Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit. * Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases. * Saying Adobe postponed the release dates of Flash 10.1 for smartphones: bullshit. He's repeating a story that has already been corrected on a number of places (that Flash's release was pushed to 2nd half of 2010) as fact. That he's ignoring the fact that the story was misinterpreted by one source, and simply repeating the wrong news, is staggering. FP is still bound for a release in the 1st half of 2010. * Saying "Adobe has recently added support for h264 playback": gee, I guess 2.5 years is "recently"? h264 support was added with FP 9.0.115, released in December 2007. There's a lot more, but it tends to get tiring to constantly dispel the most obvious FUD written for the general public and full of misinformation. Mactards will believe whatever they want to believe, so hey... I'll just let the platform speak for itself. In 5 years, let's see how well Apple narrow mindedness business decisions work out for them.
- teamonkey 17y ago
  "Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world." Clearly nonsense. I'm willing to bet that there are many, many more games and entertainment apps written in Flash alone than there are on the app store.
  - bradshaw1965 17y ago
    "I'm willing to bet that there are many, many more games and entertainment apps written in Flash alone than there are on the app store." Is that a position for or against keeping flash off the iPhone, iPod and iPad?
    - teamonkey 17y ago
      Neither. It's just pointing out one of many FUD items in Steve's memo.
  - veemjeem 17y ago
    Flash has been around a bit longer than the iPhone has, so no surprise there. Flash has been around since PointCast Network, if anyone actually still remembers that.
- ptomato 17y ago
  * "Objective+C++ is not open." Yeah? http://gcc.gnu.org/ http://gcc.gnu.org/ * "Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit." Alright, so point to a single Adobe Air app, for example, that looks & behaves natively. * "Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases." Did you read the article? "the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software" But hey, easy to prove wrong. Point to one mobile phone with Flash (not flash lite) support that has decent battery life. ... Oh, wait... Well, one mobile phone that has Flash support period? No?
ryoshu 17y ago
- "First, there’s “Open”." SWF is open (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/ http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/). ActionScript 3 is open (http://www.ecmascript.org/docs.php http://www.ecmascript.org/docs.php, http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/ http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/). Want the Flex SDK? Here: http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Get+Source+Code http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Get+Source+... Want a non-Adobe compiler? http://haxe.org http://haxe.org Adobe still has closed projects like Flash Builder 4 and Flash CS5. But saying that, "Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary" is false. FUD. - "Second, there’s the “full web”." h.264 is more modern than Flash's support for...? Oh, right. Flash has supported h.264 for over 2 years. FUD. - "Third, there’s reliability, security and performance." Pardon me while I go name a WAP "at&t wireless." Yes, Flash has security issues. Google mobile Safari 0day. FUD. - "Fourth, there’s battery life." As mentioned above, h.264 was adopted by Adobe years ago. FUD. - "Fifth, there’s Touch." I wrote a multi-touch Flash API for custom hardware shortly after Flash 9's release. Multi-touch works fine in Flash. Rewire some events and it's seamless. FUD. - "Sixth, the most important reason." Has Steve Jobs actually ever used Xcode? Beyond the native, crappy tools that Apple offers, some of us developers prefer to choose the tools we like to use when we write software. We like to use various languages based on what works best for us. Apple is screwing over developers and they are using Microsoft level FUD to convince us its for our own good.
- cpr 17y ago
  Some of us old-timers (Unix v6!) are using Xcode and think it's a great toolset. Show me a better-integrated set of editors, compilers and (most important) debugging/performance analysis tools on any platform.