4 ms·

This raises all sorts of interesting questions about the implications of software updates on hardware platforms that are governed by consumer protection laws. A

by tumult 17y ago

This raises all sorts of interesting questions about the implications of software updates on hardware platforms that are governed by consumer protection laws. And none of them I want called into question, since I dropped $600 (and then a $160 repair two years later, after the GPU burned out) on this stupid shiny Foreman grill, and am tired of Sony dicking around with it. I would like them to buy it back from me. And it's not even a frivolous suit. It says right on the fucking box that I could install another OS on it. And now I can't. What the fuck? If I don't update, then my multiplayer games stop working, I can't watch Blu-Rays that access the internet, and I can't play new game releases or patch existing ones. That's not even borderline wrong, it's clearly wrong, and probably illegal (though I'm not a lawyer.) Otherwise, companies could advertise whatever features they wanted for some product, and then claim they were "disabled in a software update" later on when they don't have those features. Which is what Sony did. Fuck you, Sony.

conflux0 17y ago
If you want to keep the features you could just stay with your current firmware. It is optional to upgrade, not a forced decision. Also it begs the question of why you want to keep the functionality. If you were going to use it for the cell computing power or just messing around you could always use the old firmware and upgrade when you want to use the playstation network functionality. If you want to keep both features there is a good chance the reason why you would want to do so is to pirate games. Could someone explain to me why there is any legitimacy in this suit?
- dmm 17y ago
  > If you want to keep both features there is a good chance the reason why you would want to do so is to pirate games There is no known way to pirate games on the ps3. Geohot's hack only allows access to the hypervisor. There are several security measures in place that would still prevent people from playing copied games.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    The problem is that Sony would have to patch vulnerabilities like that and keep maintaining the OtherOS compatibility. For a service that's useless to like 99% of PS3 owners, it's understandable they no longer want to maintain it. And frankly I don't really care for it, so long as I'm not paying a monthly fee.
    - dmm 17y ago
      > The problem is that Sony would have to patch vulnerabilities like that and keep maintaining the OtherOS compatibility. You don't understand the problems. There really isn't a good way to patch the vulnerability found. That still doesn't mean I'm not pissed sony removed otheros. > And frankly I don't really care for it, Good for you? This discussion is for those who do care.
      - chrischen 17y ago
        > Good for you? This discussion is for those who do care. Thanks. For those who need OtherOS, you are undoubtedly in the very small minority with special undoubtedly non-gaming or game-purchase-inducing activities. Therefore the needs of this minority aren't going to be put in front of the needs of those who purchased a PS3 to play games with. If they divert resources to fixing the OtherOS somehow, that detracts from their resources to provide for the game-playing movie-playing users of the PS3. In other words, if you purchased a PS3 for the OtherOS functionality, why should you expect to also have the cutting edge system updates targeted at people who bought the PS3 for games? You do have a choice to not upgrade and continue using your OtherOS, and for many people who do use OtherOS this is a viable option. For example if you have a cluster of these for scientific research or whatever, you're not going to complain about it not playing some new game. I think it's one thing if Sony secretly patched your PS3 and removed the OtherOS, but they explicitly ask you if you want to upgrade. You can either choose to upgrade to the new stuff they are providing gratis (after all they are not obligated to provide updates are they?) or maintain the system exactly as you had purchased it, which contain the EXACT functionalities it had when you purchased it (including the ability to play games released at the time you purchased it).
- chc 17y ago
  No, it is not optional to upgrade — at least not in the usual sense of the word. If you upgrade, you lose the ability to run Linux. If you don't upgrade, you lose the ability to play games. That's more like an ultimatum than a traditional optional install.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    You can still play games... Just not online, which is a free service anyways.
    - dmm 17y ago
      Several PSN games will not work without the PSN, even while playing single-player. EDIT: Also new games will not work without upgrading.
- eru 17y ago
  Perhaps he wants to play around with Linux and play new games from time to time?
chrischen 17y ago
You can still play games. You can't play them online, but it's not like you paid for that privilege. Online play is footed by Sony for free. You can still watch blu-rays. As someone who installed an OtherOS (Yellowdog linux) and found it completely useless, i can say that for most PS3 users this feature isn't going to be missed, no matter how many friends you told that your ps3 could run linux. You have to keep in mind that keeping linux support probably ment future man-hours maintaining compatibility in future updates. For such a useless feature, do you really expect them to keep maintaining its compatibility? After all, you don't pay Sony and monthly fees to provide the updates or your online gaming capabilities. I figure they dropped it because it was a) useless, b) apparently exposes a vulnerability in their drm and possible future exploits unless they keep maintaining it. PS3's hardware is subsidized so that you will buy games at inflated prices. I for one completely understood that when I bought a PS3.

by tumult 17y ago

conflux0 17y ago

If you want to keep the features you could just stay with your current firmware. It is optional to upgrade, not a forced decision. Also it begs the question of why you want to keep the functionality. If you were going to use it for the cell computing power or just messing around you could always use the old firmware and upgrade when you want to use the playstation network functionality. If you want to keep both features there is a good chance the reason why you would want to do so is to pirate games. Could someone explain to me why there is any legitimacy in this suit?

dmm 17y ago
> If you want to keep both features there is a good chance the reason why you would want to do so is to pirate games There is no known way to pirate games on the ps3. Geohot's hack only allows access to the hypervisor. There are several security measures in place that would still prevent people from playing copied games.
- chrischen 17y ago
  The problem is that Sony would have to patch vulnerabilities like that and keep maintaining the OtherOS compatibility. For a service that's useless to like 99% of PS3 owners, it's understandable they no longer want to maintain it. And frankly I don't really care for it, so long as I'm not paying a monthly fee.
  - dmm 17y ago
    > The problem is that Sony would have to patch vulnerabilities like that and keep maintaining the OtherOS compatibility. You don't understand the problems. There really isn't a good way to patch the vulnerability found. That still doesn't mean I'm not pissed sony removed otheros. > And frankly I don't really care for it, Good for you? This discussion is for those who do care.
    - chrischen 17y ago
      > Good for you? This discussion is for those who do care. Thanks. For those who need OtherOS, you are undoubtedly in the very small minority with special undoubtedly non-gaming or game-purchase-inducing activities. Therefore the needs of this minority aren't going to be put in front of the needs of those who purchased a PS3 to play games with. If they divert resources to fixing the OtherOS somehow, that detracts from their resources to provide for the game-playing movie-playing users of the PS3. In other words, if you purchased a PS3 for the OtherOS functionality, why should you expect to also have the cutting edge system updates targeted at people who bought the PS3 for games? You do have a choice to not upgrade and continue using your OtherOS, and for many people who do use OtherOS this is a viable option. For example if you have a cluster of these for scientific research or whatever, you're not going to complain about it not playing some new game. I think it's one thing if Sony secretly patched your PS3 and removed the OtherOS, but they explicitly ask you if you want to upgrade. You can either choose to upgrade to the new stuff they are providing gratis (after all they are not obligated to provide updates are they?) or maintain the system exactly as you had purchased it, which contain the EXACT functionalities it had when you purchased it (including the ability to play games released at the time you purchased it).
chc 17y ago
No, it is not optional to upgrade — at least not in the usual sense of the word. If you upgrade, you lose the ability to run Linux. If you don't upgrade, you lose the ability to play games. That's more like an ultimatum than a traditional optional install.
- chrischen 17y ago
  You can still play games... Just not online, which is a free service anyways.
  - dmm 17y ago
    Several PSN games will not work without the PSN, even while playing single-player. EDIT: Also new games will not work without upgrading.
eru 17y ago
Perhaps he wants to play around with Linux and play new games from time to time?

chrischen 17y ago

You can still play games. You can't play them online, but it's not like you paid for that privilege. Online play is footed by Sony for free. You can still watch blu-rays. As someone who installed an OtherOS (Yellowdog linux) and found it completely useless, i can say that for most PS3 users this feature isn't going to be missed, no matter how many friends you told that your ps3 could run linux. You have to keep in mind that keeping linux support probably ment future man-hours maintaining compatibility in future updates. For such a useless feature, do you really expect them to keep maintaining its compatibility? After all, you don't pay Sony and monthly fees to provide the updates or your online gaming capabilities. I figure they dropped it because it was a) useless, b) apparently exposes a vulnerability in their drm and possible future exploits unless they keep maintaining it. PS3's hardware is subsidized so that you will buy games at inflated prices. I for one completely understood that when I bought a PS3.