3 ms·

That's not true at all. Companies that do any business with Cuba are not allowed to do business with American companies/individuals.

bzbarsky 10y ago
As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that's not true. As a simple counterexample, Air Canada flies to Cuba and does business with US companies/individuals just fine. I'm not an expert on the embargo, and it's a bit complicated because it's got multiple pieces of enabling legislation, but at first glance the only one of those that says anything close to what you're saying is Title III of the Helms-Burton act (see http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/libertad.pdf http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/... for full text). That explicitly allows companies "trafficking in property which was confiscated by the Cuban Government on or after January 1, 1959", if it was confiscated from a United States national, to be sued in US courts. This obviously only matters to companies doing business in the US, because otherwise they don't care whether they get sued to start with. Note also that certain forms of real estate are excluded from the provisions of this law, again at first glance. Am I just missing something? Do you have a citation for your claim?
- kuschku 10y ago
  PayPal (and several US banks) seized all funds of a huge German drugstore chain and their online markets, and demanded they’d stop making business with Cuban cigars before returning it (as reported in the news: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpressen-Rossmann-schmeisst-Paypal-raus-1340041.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpr... [2011], also see the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_blackmails_one_of_the_three_major_german/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_bl...) The same happened with MasterCard and VISA, and is part of the reason why I think Germany should continue to keep its own payment system, and just ban MasterCard and VISA and PayPal within the EU. Or that you can’t technically put apps on the iOS App Store or the Google Play Store if you trade with Cuba. (As you technically need an export declaration, as described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 )
  - bzbarsky 10y ago
    Thank you for the links. The Reddit discussion references the Helms-Burton act, and for the case of things like banks and payment processors, I expect the problem is Title I section 103, which prohibits US nationals from extending loans or other financing to anyone for the purpose of financing transactions involving confiscated property as defined elsewhere in the act. So for the cigar case, if the cigars were grown on land that was confiscated (for example), my reading of it is that processing a payment for the cigars would be prohibited under the act. Certainly so for MasterCard and Visa, which are clearly extending credit. That's not the same as a blanket ban on both doing business with Cuba and business with US companies, but it does make things very complicated, I agree, especially because there are so many ways of extending credit when companies deal with each other.

bzbarsky 10y ago

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that's not true. As a simple counterexample, Air Canada flies to Cuba and does business with US companies/individuals just fine. I'm not an expert on the embargo, and it's a bit complicated because it's got multiple pieces of enabling legislation, but at first glance the only one of those that says anything close to what you're saying is Title III of the Helms-Burton act (see http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/libertad.pdf http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/... for full text). That explicitly allows companies "trafficking in property which was confiscated by the Cuban Government on or after January 1, 1959", if it was confiscated from a United States national, to be sued in US courts. This obviously only matters to companies doing business in the US, because otherwise they don't care whether they get sued to start with. Note also that certain forms of real estate are excluded from the provisions of this law, again at first glance. Am I just missing something? Do you have a citation for your claim?

kuschku 10y ago
PayPal (and several US banks) seized all funds of a huge German drugstore chain and their online markets, and demanded they’d stop making business with Cuban cigars before returning it (as reported in the news: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpressen-Rossmann-schmeisst-Paypal-raus-1340041.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpr... [2011], also see the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_blackmails_one_of_the_three_major_german/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_bl...) The same happened with MasterCard and VISA, and is part of the reason why I think Germany should continue to keep its own payment system, and just ban MasterCard and VISA and PayPal within the EU. Or that you can’t technically put apps on the iOS App Store or the Google Play Store if you trade with Cuba. (As you technically need an export declaration, as described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 )
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  Thank you for the links. The Reddit discussion references the Helms-Burton act, and for the case of things like banks and payment processors, I expect the problem is Title I section 103, which prohibits US nationals from extending loans or other financing to anyone for the purpose of financing transactions involving confiscated property as defined elsewhere in the act. So for the cigar case, if the cigars were grown on land that was confiscated (for example), my reading of it is that processing a payment for the cigars would be prohibited under the act. Certainly so for MasterCard and Visa, which are clearly extending credit. That's not the same as a blanket ban on both doing business with Cuba and business with US companies, but it does make things very complicated, I agree, especially because there are so many ways of extending credit when companies deal with each other.