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"Cuba has been under embargos for decades. " Cuba has been embargoed only by the USA. Cuba can buy absolutely anything it needs - even American products - sim

"Cuba has been under embargos for decades. " Cuba has been embargoed only by the USA. Cuba can buy absolutely anything it needs - even American products - simply by going through any one of a myriad of interlocutors: Mexico, Canada, Jamaica, Venezuela. There is absolutely no forgiving Fidel's cruel dictatorship.

justicezyx 10y ago
US embargo means a lot, not just unable to buy stuff easily. Let's not pretend that US was not the world cop. The embargo definitely has negative impact on Cuba economy.
- edblarney 10y ago
  I fully sympathize with that fact and it's correct. Just as I understand there is some Cuban goodwill with respect to the doctors they send abroad - and early on Fidel's creation of better literacy/healthcare programs. But remember this: Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA - and created a crazy situation - the closest the world has ever been to full blown nuclear war. That was this man's hubris - he nearly helped put the world on fire. That kind of existential threat is not easily forgotten. Point being: the 'embargo' is 100% Fidel's fault, and he could have easily taken steps to have it removed, but his ego would not allow it.
  - justicezyx 10y ago
    > Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA That's after US did the same to Russia and failed invasion of Cuba. “In response to the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, and the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev decided to agree to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles in Cuba to deter future harassment of Cuba.” [1] You may want to read [2], which was posted on HN before. In short, US was a real bully back then. Anything did by Cuba and USSR were mostly reactive knee-jerking response to the aggressive stance of US. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real-cuban-missile-crisis/309190/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real...
    - edblarney 10y ago
      "reactive knee-jerking response to the aggressive stance of US." It was a response to the Cuban revolution, which was Communist, and 'Soviet inspired' from day one - a global movement which was threatening the entire world.
IslaDeEncanta 10y ago
That's not true at all. Companies that do any business with Cuba are not allowed to do business with American companies/individuals.
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that's not true. As a simple counterexample, Air Canada flies to Cuba and does business with US companies/individuals just fine. I'm not an expert on the embargo, and it's a bit complicated because it's got multiple pieces of enabling legislation, but at first glance the only one of those that says anything close to what you're saying is Title III of the Helms-Burton act (see http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/libertad.pdf http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/... for full text). That explicitly allows companies "trafficking in property which was confiscated by the Cuban Government on or after January 1, 1959", if it was confiscated from a United States national, to be sued in US courts. This obviously only matters to companies doing business in the US, because otherwise they don't care whether they get sued to start with. Note also that certain forms of real estate are excluded from the provisions of this law, again at first glance. Am I just missing something? Do you have a citation for your claim?
  - kuschku 10y ago
    PayPal (and several US banks) seized all funds of a huge German drugstore chain and their online markets, and demanded they’d stop making business with Cuban cigars before returning it (as reported in the news: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpressen-Rossmann-schmeisst-Paypal-raus-1340041.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpr... [2011], also see the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_blackmails_one_of_the_three_major_german/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_bl...) The same happened with MasterCard and VISA, and is part of the reason why I think Germany should continue to keep its own payment system, and just ban MasterCard and VISA and PayPal within the EU. Or that you can’t technically put apps on the iOS App Store or the Google Play Store if you trade with Cuba. (As you technically need an export declaration, as described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 )

justicezyx 10y ago

US embargo means a lot, not just unable to buy stuff easily. Let's not pretend that US was not the world cop. The embargo definitely has negative impact on Cuba economy.

edblarney 10y ago
I fully sympathize with that fact and it's correct. Just as I understand there is some Cuban goodwill with respect to the doctors they send abroad - and early on Fidel's creation of better literacy/healthcare programs. But remember this: Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA - and created a crazy situation - the closest the world has ever been to full blown nuclear war. That was this man's hubris - he nearly helped put the world on fire. That kind of existential threat is not easily forgotten. Point being: the 'embargo' is 100% Fidel's fault, and he could have easily taken steps to have it removed, but his ego would not allow it.
- justicezyx 10y ago
  > Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA That's after US did the same to Russia and failed invasion of Cuba. “In response to the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, and the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev decided to agree to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles in Cuba to deter future harassment of Cuba.” [1] You may want to read [2], which was posted on HN before. In short, US was a real bully back then. Anything did by Cuba and USSR were mostly reactive knee-jerking response to the aggressive stance of US. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real-cuban-missile-crisis/309190/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real...
  - edblarney 10y ago
    "reactive knee-jerking response to the aggressive stance of US." It was a response to the Cuban revolution, which was Communist, and 'Soviet inspired' from day one - a global movement which was threatening the entire world.

IslaDeEncanta 10y ago

That's not true at all. Companies that do any business with Cuba are not allowed to do business with American companies/individuals.

bzbarsky 10y ago
As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that's not true. As a simple counterexample, Air Canada flies to Cuba and does business with US companies/individuals just fine. I'm not an expert on the embargo, and it's a bit complicated because it's got multiple pieces of enabling legislation, but at first glance the only one of those that says anything close to what you're saying is Title III of the Helms-Burton act (see http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/libertad.pdf http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/... for full text). That explicitly allows companies "trafficking in property which was confiscated by the Cuban Government on or after January 1, 1959", if it was confiscated from a United States national, to be sued in US courts. This obviously only matters to companies doing business in the US, because otherwise they don't care whether they get sued to start with. Note also that certain forms of real estate are excluded from the provisions of this law, again at first glance. Am I just missing something? Do you have a citation for your claim?
- kuschku 10y ago
  PayPal (and several US banks) seized all funds of a huge German drugstore chain and their online markets, and demanded they’d stop making business with Cuban cigars before returning it (as reported in the news: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpressen-Rossmann-schmeisst-Paypal-raus-1340041.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Lassen-uns-nicht-erpr... [2011], also see the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_blackmails_one_of_the_three_major_german/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ka26b/paypal_bl...) The same happened with MasterCard and VISA, and is part of the reason why I think Germany should continue to keep its own payment system, and just ban MasterCard and VISA and PayPal within the EU. Or that you can’t technically put apps on the iOS App Store or the Google Play Store if you trade with Cuba. (As you technically need an export declaration, as described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10835045 )