3 ms·

As astaloli said, the DSM is not valid. If changes in diagnoses are changing yearly...the NIMH seems completely correct in rejecting the book.

digler999 10y ago
> the DSM is not valid. that makes treatment easy then. POOF! all mental illness disappears because the book is "invalid". FYI you're using a defense called denial[1] when you do that :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
- atsaloli 10y ago
  We do actually need valid treatment.
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    That's going to be hard to organise if no one is sure what they're supposed to be treating. It looks like you're using a God of the Sciences argument - because we don't have a full and complete model of mental anguish and self-defeating behaviours, nothing we currently believe about them can be useful or true. This turns out to be inaccurate. Therapies are tested regularly. Some score better than others, and statistically the results are at least as valid as the result of clinical drug trials. It would be useful to have a complete Theory of Mind, but no such thing is likely to exist for a while. Luckily it isn't needed to make a difference. The most useful therapies are results-oriented rather than process-oriented, and the most consistent results come from behavioural reinforcement techniques (where "behaviour" includes "persistent emotional states.") This doesn't mean other kinds of therapy are useless. But they are less reliable - which may be because they can be more challenging for both sides, or because they don't work, or for all kinds of other reasons.
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      Measurements or not, past therapies have been highly unethical and criminal. Anything sharing a name with those prior behaviours is highly suspect.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  POOF! I never claimed any such thing. You are talking with a strawman.

digler999 10y ago

> the DSM is not valid. that makes treatment easy then. POOF! all mental illness disappears because the book is "invalid". FYI you're using a defense called denial[1] when you do that :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

atsaloli 10y ago
We do actually need valid treatment.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  That's going to be hard to organise if no one is sure what they're supposed to be treating. It looks like you're using a God of the Sciences argument - because we don't have a full and complete model of mental anguish and self-defeating behaviours, nothing we currently believe about them can be useful or true. This turns out to be inaccurate. Therapies are tested regularly. Some score better than others, and statistically the results are at least as valid as the result of clinical drug trials. It would be useful to have a complete Theory of Mind, but no such thing is likely to exist for a while. Luckily it isn't needed to make a difference. The most useful therapies are results-oriented rather than process-oriented, and the most consistent results come from behavioural reinforcement techniques (where "behaviour" includes "persistent emotional states.") This doesn't mean other kinds of therapy are useless. But they are less reliable - which may be because they can be more challenging for both sides, or because they don't work, or for all kinds of other reasons.
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    Measurements or not, past therapies have been highly unethical and criminal. Anything sharing a name with those prior behaviours is highly suspect.
jsprogrammer 10y ago
POOF! I never claimed any such thing. You are talking with a strawman.