6 ms·

Well, it is a shock if you make 95% of those internal combustion engines electric too, that's it, hybrid, because they are way more efficient. For example, jus

by pipio21 10y ago

Well, it is a shock if you make 95% of those internal combustion engines electric too, that's it, hybrid, because they are way more efficient. For example, just adding supercaps means you could recover 20 to 30% of your energy from regenerative braking. This will happen when tech is ready(cheap in big quantities), and it is getting ready. It is not just Tesla, but hundreds of companies working on those problems. But also, the real shock is making cars self drive because suddenly your cars do not need to stay in a static place for hours in cities. Today cars carry an average of 1.1 to 1.05 people in cities, but are made to carry 5 to 6 people, they weight over 1500kilograms for moving 80 kilos. If you can make cars 5/6 smaller like you can easily do with electric(it is very hard to make a small 4 stroke engine) you can improve enormously the efficiency and reduce contamination of cities.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gambiting 10y ago
I don't think I understand the last point. Even if my car is self-driving, I still don't want to share one with anyone. I also want it to be big to take all of my music equipment,computer rig, etc etc etc with me. I think cars being as large as they are has absolutely nothing to do with a size of the engine. There are some cars with absolutely tiny 4-stroke engines and they are still "large" because anything smaller would be unstable on the road. You can't make a cabin for a single person on 4 wheels, because it will fall over in any turn - you have to make it a motorcycle, or a tricycle - and you are losing a lot of things that make a car a car at that point. Not to mention the fact that I don't want my car to be a tin can - I want to be comfortable.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  " I still don't want to share one with anyone" That's fair enough, but many people will enjoy having access to economical transport without sinking tens of thousands of dollars in to a depreciating asset.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    In my experience, people who want to have access to economical transport without sinking money into depreciating assets take a bus. If they have to have a car and don't have money to buy a new/almost new car, they buy a car that's 10 years old and drive that. I think people who own a car now won't be tempted to switch to a small non-personal-space vehicle even if it's much cheaper - if they cared about cheaper transport, there were already other options available, and they didn't pick them. They drive cars because they need them. And if those people who now use public transport decide to take cheap self driving pods, then the traffic problem gets worse, not better.
    - petra 10y ago
      Public transportation is a poor replacement for a car in many places and a 10 year old car raises reliability issues with many people who are afraid to have a problem while driving. And while people sometimes appreciate a lot of space in a car, most often, when they commute , they might not need that.
      - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        > a 10 year old car raises reliability issues with many people who are afraid to have a problem while driving. In ~15 years of car ownership, I have never owned a car less than 10 years old, and I don't understand this at all. Currently I drive a 2002 Peugeot 307. Regular maintenance costs me less per year than the depreciation cost alone on a new car, and I've never had a breakdown that's left me stranded. Not once.
        kazinator 10y ago
        You are lucky. And that is neither here nor there anyway, because even owners of new cars can get breakdowns that require a tow.
        semi-extrinsic 10y ago
- sampo 10y ago
  > Even if my car is self-driving, I still don't want to share one with anyone. If you can let your self-driving car drive uber and get you something like $10/hour while you are at work, I think some people would do this.
- sundvor 10y ago
  Another argument for size: Safety. It's the whole incompatibility argument, when large vehicles decimate small ones.
semi-extrinsic 10y ago
> it is very hard to make a small 4 stroke engine No, actually it's not. That's nonsense. You can buy today a 5 hp 4 stroke outboard engine, weighing about 25 kg (including transmission, housing, controls etc), for $1300 brand new. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/5-hp-outboard-motor http://www.ebay.com/bhp/5-hp-outboard-motor Furthermore, what you are proposing is not new: a tiny car with a tiny engine for one person. That's called a microcar. Wikipedia has a long list of these, starting from the 1950's onward to today, some of which have sold in quite large numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcar A modern, electric example is the Reva (G-Wiz in the UK), which was produced from 2001 to 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi Given that these already exist, why are they not the solution to our problems? For one, they're well-documented death traps. They use a loophole by classifying as a four wheel motorbike, meaning they don't need to be crash tested. Also, they are a replacement for only a small part of what a real car does, and this is the part that's also most easily replaced by public transport.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  >No, actually it's not. That's nonsense. Your right. And, that outboard you linked to would be even cheaper if it were the motor only. To add to this, here's[1] a video of a tiny 4-stroke engine. And here's a video of a tiny V8 4-stroke engine[2] that "sounds like a big American V8". 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLn7xG8vuPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLn7xG8vuPQ 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9zt3SF_Flc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9zt3SF_Flc

by pipio21 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

gambiting 10y ago

I don't think I understand the last point. Even if my car is self-driving, I still don't want to share one with anyone. I also want it to be big to take all of my music equipment,computer rig, etc etc etc with me. I think cars being as large as they are has absolutely nothing to do with a size of the engine. There are some cars with absolutely tiny 4-stroke engines and they are still "large" because anything smaller would be unstable on the road. You can't make a cabin for a single person on 4 wheels, because it will fall over in any turn - you have to make it a motorcycle, or a tricycle - and you are losing a lot of things that make a car a car at that point. Not to mention the fact that I don't want my car to be a tin can - I want to be comfortable.

CalRobert 10y ago
" I still don't want to share one with anyone" That's fair enough, but many people will enjoy having access to economical transport without sinking tens of thousands of dollars in to a depreciating asset.
- gambiting 10y ago
  In my experience, people who want to have access to economical transport without sinking money into depreciating assets take a bus. If they have to have a car and don't have money to buy a new/almost new car, they buy a car that's 10 years old and drive that. I think people who own a car now won't be tempted to switch to a small non-personal-space vehicle even if it's much cheaper - if they cared about cheaper transport, there were already other options available, and they didn't pick them. They drive cars because they need them. And if those people who now use public transport decide to take cheap self driving pods, then the traffic problem gets worse, not better.
  - petra 10y ago
    Public transportation is a poor replacement for a car in many places and a 10 year old car raises reliability issues with many people who are afraid to have a problem while driving. And while people sometimes appreciate a lot of space in a car, most often, when they commute , they might not need that.
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      > a 10 year old car raises reliability issues with many people who are afraid to have a problem while driving. In ~15 years of car ownership, I have never owned a car less than 10 years old, and I don't understand this at all. Currently I drive a 2002 Peugeot 307. Regular maintenance costs me less per year than the depreciation cost alone on a new car, and I've never had a breakdown that's left me stranded. Not once.
      - kazinator 10y ago
        You are lucky. And that is neither here nor there anyway, because even owners of new cars can get breakdowns that require a tow.
        semi-extrinsic 10y ago
sampo 10y ago
> Even if my car is self-driving, I still don't want to share one with anyone. If you can let your self-driving car drive uber and get you something like $10/hour while you are at work, I think some people would do this.
sundvor 10y ago
Another argument for size: Safety. It's the whole incompatibility argument, when large vehicles decimate small ones.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

> it is very hard to make a small 4 stroke engine No, actually it's not. That's nonsense. You can buy today a 5 hp 4 stroke outboard engine, weighing about 25 kg (including transmission, housing, controls etc), for $1300 brand new. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/5-hp-outboard-motor http://www.ebay.com/bhp/5-hp-outboard-motor Furthermore, what you are proposing is not new: a tiny car with a tiny engine for one person. That's called a microcar. Wikipedia has a long list of these, starting from the 1950's onward to today, some of which have sold in quite large numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcar A modern, electric example is the Reva (G-Wiz in the UK), which was produced from 2001 to 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi Given that these already exist, why are they not the solution to our problems? For one, they're well-documented death traps. They use a loophole by classifying as a four wheel motorbike, meaning they don't need to be crash tested. Also, they are a replacement for only a small part of what a real car does, and this is the part that's also most easily replaced by public transport.

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
>No, actually it's not. That's nonsense. Your right. And, that outboard you linked to would be even cheaper if it were the motor only. To add to this, here's[1] a video of a tiny 4-stroke engine. And here's a video of a tiny V8 4-stroke engine[2] that "sounds like a big American V8". 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLn7xG8vuPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLn7xG8vuPQ 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9zt3SF_Flc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9zt3SF_Flc