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> What I just described was only achieved once... by governments & companies making money off government projects. I am not refuting this. What I am claiming i

> What I just described was only achieved once... by governments & companies making money off government projects. I am not refuting this. What I am claiming is it was not neccessery despite being helpful. After the market made absolute [1] long distance communication and processing on data cheap and at large scale, it was only a matter of time. Even we had/were to go through IP level walled-garden/subnets, the world would have set on non-discriminating Internet. Think of this way, what Govt. created/helped-created intially was a local network and only after thousands of ISPs coming together, not because of incentives from Govt, but because of demand we have the Internet as we know now. > Companies like Facebook and Slack are where content and activity is going instead of HTML web sites and IRC. Facebook, Slack, HTML, IRC != Internet. Question: Is someone being restricted from sending/recieving anypacket to/from any IP in the world ? If no then Its not walled-garden from Internet point of view. Internet is not being harmed in anyway. However bringing Govt. into this will most likely make the answer yes. > So, they fail twice: preventing something like the Internet from occurring until government did it; trying to turn it back into wall gardens of the past albeit with web browsers and more graphics. I am not aware of any IP level walled-garden. Facebook/Slack/Myspace/etc are/were in app/website business not Internet business. [1] Not telephone etc which transform the data nondeterministically.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
"Even we had/were to go through IP level walled-garden/subnets, the world would have set on non-discriminating Internet." It still hasn't to this day in private services. They almost all wall off whatever they build. Those that build connections charge out the ass for them with all kinds of restrictions and schemes. Many get acquired and then crippled. You need to justify your assumption with evidence from the IT market. Vast majority of it works against your expectation. Further, something like the Internet would require vast majority working for that expectation. "Think of this way, what Govt. created/helped-created intially was a local network and only after thousands of ISPs coming together, not because of incentives from Govt, but because of demand we have the Internet as we know now." It was actually a combo of military needing survivable, distributed comms with universities needing to collaborate with groups that were basically self-less and highly cooperative at the time. There were private parties trying to do their thing with their self interests even at that time. It was called OSI and circuit-based lines. One failed entirely, the other isn't what Internet was built on, and itself diminished over time in favor of faster, packet-switched lines. Even in ideal environment the incentives of businesses killed their opportunity while incentives of groups not motivated by profit led to Internet. "Facebook, Slack, HTML, IRC != Internet. Question" They make up vast majority of Internet traffic along with Netflix and Google. That makes them the Internet experience for most people. A lot of the rest is walled garden apps on mobile. Sites and services purely building on Internet technology, like IRC networks or FTP servers, are barely used because private parties rarely invest in them. It's simply too easy to escape lock-in that way. We can't throw out how 99% of people and products use the Internet when discussing Internet regulations or issues. "I am not aware of any IP level walled-garden. " You should look up ISP's like Comcast policies on web servers or SMTP ports. Stuff exists even at that level to serve the monetary interests of private market. Most of the walled gardens are built on top of the Internet protocols with ecosystem effect meaning you have to work within them to reach users they hit with First Mover advantage in new markets.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

"Even we had/were to go through IP level walled-garden/subnets, the world would have set on non-discriminating Internet." It still hasn't to this day in private services. They almost all wall off whatever they build. Those that build connections charge out the ass for them with all kinds of restrictions and schemes. Many get acquired and then crippled. You need to justify your assumption with evidence from the IT market. Vast majority of it works against your expectation. Further, something like the Internet would require vast majority working for that expectation. "Think of this way, what Govt. created/helped-created intially was a local network and only after thousands of ISPs coming together, not because of incentives from Govt, but because of demand we have the Internet as we know now." It was actually a combo of military needing survivable, distributed comms with universities needing to collaborate with groups that were basically self-less and highly cooperative at the time. There were private parties trying to do their thing with their self interests even at that time. It was called OSI and circuit-based lines. One failed entirely, the other isn't what Internet was built on, and itself diminished over time in favor of faster, packet-switched lines. Even in ideal environment the incentives of businesses killed their opportunity while incentives of groups not motivated by profit led to Internet. "Facebook, Slack, HTML, IRC != Internet. Question" They make up vast majority of Internet traffic along with Netflix and Google. That makes them the Internet experience for most people. A lot of the rest is walled garden apps on mobile. Sites and services purely building on Internet technology, like IRC networks or FTP servers, are barely used because private parties rarely invest in them. It's simply too easy to escape lock-in that way. We can't throw out how 99% of people and products use the Internet when discussing Internet regulations or issues. "I am not aware of any IP level walled-garden. " You should look up ISP's like Comcast policies on web servers or SMTP ports. Stuff exists even at that level to serve the monetary interests of private market. Most of the walled gardens are built on top of the Internet protocols with ecosystem effect meaning you have to work within them to reach users they hit with First Mover advantage in new markets.