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I'm really with Stewart on this one. Both in that I love Apple products and that I think Apple is becoming "The Man" they used to rail against. Can you be a dom

I'm really with Stewart on this one. Both in that I love Apple products and that I think Apple is becoming "The Man" they used to rail against. Can you be a dominant player and not be "The Man"? Well, I think Google is making a good go of it. For what it's worth I'm going to Google I/O this year and not WWDC. Market be damned, my philosophy compels me to seek out open. And nowadays Google is out-opening Apple.

ThomPete 17y ago
Googles business model requires openes I really don't think it's fair to compare the two. Apple sell products, google sell advertising. Apple is dependent only on their own ecosystem, google on the entire Internet. I would be much more worried about the data that google collects about you than apple. And let's not forget that google is not more open than you don't know exactly how their search algorithms work and have no saying on the premises used to rank you.
- Retric 17y ago
  I think Google is in a much more big brother relationship with it's users than Apple is. Apple restricts it's HW and what can run on it, but it does not keep track of it's Users. IMO, Apple is really much more Disneyland where everything is expensive, looks nice, and is under their control. Also working as a vendor at Disneyland really sucks and involves a lot of rules which can change at any time. But, Disneyland only has the power to kick you out not hand out details of your private life. PS: I used to develop for Mac OS 8 and while it sucked for a completely different set of reasons it still sucked. I don't think Apple really understands how important developers are because they tend be the first mover and don't have to work to get them.
  - eavc 17y ago
    But iAds changes this. Google only cares about your info to better target you. Now Apple has an ad platform and will want to do the same.
    - jshen 17y ago
      "Google only cares about your info to better target you" so far
  - jlmendez 17y ago
    Apple might not keep track of its users (at least that's what we think) but they do keep track of my credit card. Why can't you just enter your credit card information when you buy something from the iTunes store instead of saving it permanently? Also, now that Apple is getting into advertisement I think is just a matter of time for them to start tracking us like crazy.
- tptacek 17y ago
  You mean except for the part where Google can effectively de-list any business from the Internet (by evicting them from the Internet's primary navigation mechanism, and the only navigation tool most non-technical users know to use) on any pretext whatsoever?
  - jshen 17y ago
    This is very valid, and just as bad if not worse than the app store. I've been at a company where a large part of our revenue came from people finding our site (legit ecommerce) via google. We got purged from the index twice without any warning or explanation. We petitioned and manage to get back in both times after a couple of weeks, but with no explanation of why we got banned. We weren't doing any black-hat seo crap either. It was completely on the up and up.
fnid2 17y ago
Google is much more "Big Brother" then Apple. WHY? Because if you don't use Apple products, Apple doesn't care. They don't track you and they don't store your information. Google however is a different case. Even if I don't intend to use Google's products, I don't search from their site, and I am not a customer of any of their products, they STILL track me through javascript files linked to or embedded by other websites I do visit. I can choose not to be tracked by Apple, but unless I take extreme measures, like blocking google domains in my HOSTS file, which I do, I can still be tracked by them -- against my explicit consent, which is exactly what Big Brother did.
- akshaybhat 17y ago
  javascript cdn tracks you huh? Are you on LSD or something. what is next google seceret agreement with firefox to track ssl certificate usage?? ppl like you arent worth to be on this forum.
  - benologist 17y ago
    Google Analytics and AdSense don't leave many secrets on the internet. They even watch us on Redtube.
    - akshaybhat 17y ago
      Really you are arguing agaist google because of tracking by Google analytics and AdSense??? Are you nuts?? Both programs are installed on the sites by explicit request of the website owners. If you should have problem with then that should be with the website owners "redtube" and not Google. Also if you can prove that the TOS (Terms of Services) and Privacy Policy of the website you are visiting are violated by the Analytics or AdSense. Then you can petition in court as violation of policy. However if you still visit the same website which have set the privacy policy and Tos compliant with AdSense and Analytics, and are crying about google watching you then i offer you a simle solution. Dont visit those websites! If you find lot like minded people then the traffic will automatically vanish. Till then keep your mouth shut.
fr0man 17y ago
I'm trying to figure out when Apple wasn't "The Man". Even when they were slugging it out with M$ and IBM in the 80s, they weren't small potatoes. And frequently engaged in scorched earth business practices.

ThomPete 17y ago

Googles business model requires openes I really don't think it's fair to compare the two. Apple sell products, google sell advertising. Apple is dependent only on their own ecosystem, google on the entire Internet. I would be much more worried about the data that google collects about you than apple. And let's not forget that google is not more open than you don't know exactly how their search algorithms work and have no saying on the premises used to rank you.

Retric 17y ago
I think Google is in a much more big brother relationship with it's users than Apple is. Apple restricts it's HW and what can run on it, but it does not keep track of it's Users. IMO, Apple is really much more Disneyland where everything is expensive, looks nice, and is under their control. Also working as a vendor at Disneyland really sucks and involves a lot of rules which can change at any time. But, Disneyland only has the power to kick you out not hand out details of your private life. PS: I used to develop for Mac OS 8 and while it sucked for a completely different set of reasons it still sucked. I don't think Apple really understands how important developers are because they tend be the first mover and don't have to work to get them.
- eavc 17y ago
  But iAds changes this. Google only cares about your info to better target you. Now Apple has an ad platform and will want to do the same.
  - jshen 17y ago
    "Google only cares about your info to better target you" so far
- jlmendez 17y ago
  Apple might not keep track of its users (at least that's what we think) but they do keep track of my credit card. Why can't you just enter your credit card information when you buy something from the iTunes store instead of saving it permanently? Also, now that Apple is getting into advertisement I think is just a matter of time for them to start tracking us like crazy.
tptacek 17y ago
You mean except for the part where Google can effectively de-list any business from the Internet (by evicting them from the Internet's primary navigation mechanism, and the only navigation tool most non-technical users know to use) on any pretext whatsoever?
- jshen 17y ago
  This is very valid, and just as bad if not worse than the app store. I've been at a company where a large part of our revenue came from people finding our site (legit ecommerce) via google. We got purged from the index twice without any warning or explanation. We petitioned and manage to get back in both times after a couple of weeks, but with no explanation of why we got banned. We weren't doing any black-hat seo crap either. It was completely on the up and up.

fnid2 17y ago

Google is much more "Big Brother" then Apple. WHY? Because if you don't use Apple products, Apple doesn't care. They don't track you and they don't store your information. Google however is a different case. Even if I don't intend to use Google's products, I don't search from their site, and I am not a customer of any of their products, they STILL track me through javascript files linked to or embedded by other websites I do visit. I can choose not to be tracked by Apple, but unless I take extreme measures, like blocking google domains in my HOSTS file, which I do, I can still be tracked by them -- against my explicit consent, which is exactly what Big Brother did.

akshaybhat 17y ago
javascript cdn tracks you huh? Are you on LSD or something. what is next google seceret agreement with firefox to track ssl certificate usage?? ppl like you arent worth to be on this forum.
- benologist 17y ago
  Google Analytics and AdSense don't leave many secrets on the internet. They even watch us on Redtube.
  - akshaybhat 17y ago
    Really you are arguing agaist google because of tracking by Google analytics and AdSense??? Are you nuts?? Both programs are installed on the sites by explicit request of the website owners. If you should have problem with then that should be with the website owners "redtube" and not Google. Also if you can prove that the TOS (Terms of Services) and Privacy Policy of the website you are visiting are violated by the Analytics or AdSense. Then you can petition in court as violation of policy. However if you still visit the same website which have set the privacy policy and Tos compliant with AdSense and Analytics, and are crying about google watching you then i offer you a simle solution. Dont visit those websites! If you find lot like minded people then the traffic will automatically vanish. Till then keep your mouth shut.

fr0man 17y ago

I'm trying to figure out when Apple wasn't "The Man". Even when they were slugging it out with M$ and IBM in the 80s, they weren't small potatoes. And frequently engaged in scorched earth business practices.