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> Spying on everyone is just increasing the size of the > haystack and making it harder for someone to follow up > on actual hard intelligence. No no, you

> Spying on everyone is just increasing the size of the > haystack and making it harder for someone to follow up > on actual hard intelligence. No no, you see, because big data. Probably also clouds. /s Seriously, I think this ship has sailed; we can only find new ways to operate under our new circumstances, rather than preventing them from coming about as we could have done up until maybe 15 years ago. The most charitable interpretation I can find for the nascent global surveillance state is that world governments are (quite reasonably, in my view) collectively anticipating great upheaval in the near to mid-term future, and recognise that they must do something to keep a hand on the rudder. I do not believe that a unilateral panopticon (i.e. "we are watching you, but you may not watch us") is the right response, and I dislike that it is being presented as an anti-terror/anti-piracy/anti-{localized-name($bad-people)} measure, rather than described honestly. What worries me enormously is that the nationalist right is also on the rise at the same time. If we are lucky, it may all lead to greater worldwide unity in the long term, but I am not hopeful that this will transpire within my lifetime.

visarga 10y ago
> If we are lucky, it may all lead to greater worldwide unity In order to reach that point, we need to protect diversity in the middle of all this integration that is happening with the internet. "Integration in differentiation", and "differentiation in integration", are necessary principles for a healthy society. Practically protecting diversity would mean protecting privacy, the right to express political views the right to be different. If we can't protect diversity we get to the regime of 1984. There is a profound biological reason for this concept - neurons in the brain are differentiated by being differently connected, and are integrated by virtue of said connections. So they are both diverse and integrated, and the result is conscious mind - a system that can handle both highly complex dynamism and balance. The theory of integrated information is one of the most respected theories about consciousness. We should strive to be more like the brain. Another practical point is that concentration of power is detrimental. It leads to a decrease of diversity. If we want to become a happier society we need to protect both integration and diversity. These two principles have many other social and technological applications.
- eponeponepon 10y ago
  You're describing a fear of civilisation becoming "unconscious"? That's not a possibility that ever struck me before, so thanks, you've just fuelled my nightmares for months to come now :-s
bogomipz 10y ago
>" we can only find new ways to operate under our new circumstances, rather than preventing them from coming about as we could have done up until maybe 15 years ago." Could you elaborate on what you mean here?
- eponeponepon 10y ago
  Succinctly, I mean that the only route forward now is VPNs, crypto, and educating the gen-pop properly. We are too far down this road to stop it without breaking society wholesale.

visarga 10y ago

> If we are lucky, it may all lead to greater worldwide unity In order to reach that point, we need to protect diversity in the middle of all this integration that is happening with the internet. "Integration in differentiation", and "differentiation in integration", are necessary principles for a healthy society. Practically protecting diversity would mean protecting privacy, the right to express political views the right to be different. If we can't protect diversity we get to the regime of 1984. There is a profound biological reason for this concept - neurons in the brain are differentiated by being differently connected, and are integrated by virtue of said connections. So they are both diverse and integrated, and the result is conscious mind - a system that can handle both highly complex dynamism and balance. The theory of integrated information is one of the most respected theories about consciousness. We should strive to be more like the brain. Another practical point is that concentration of power is detrimental. It leads to a decrease of diversity. If we want to become a happier society we need to protect both integration and diversity. These two principles have many other social and technological applications.

eponeponepon 10y ago
You're describing a fear of civilisation becoming "unconscious"? That's not a possibility that ever struck me before, so thanks, you've just fuelled my nightmares for months to come now :-s

bogomipz 10y ago

>" we can only find new ways to operate under our new circumstances, rather than preventing them from coming about as we could have done up until maybe 15 years ago." Could you elaborate on what you mean here?

eponeponepon 10y ago
Succinctly, I mean that the only route forward now is VPNs, crypto, and educating the gen-pop properly. We are too far down this road to stop it without breaking society wholesale.