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In 2015, Finnish electricity production was as follows [1]: - 33.7% nuclear - 16.6% fossil fuels - 44.9% renewables - 4.4% peat Wikipedia says that al

by dancek 10y ago

In 2015, Finnish electricity production was as follows [1]: - 33.7% nuclear - 16.6% fossil fuels - 44.9% renewables - 4.4% peat Wikipedia says that all the fossil fuels are imported (except peat) but does not cite a source. With a fifth nuclear reactor under construction (Olkiluoto 3), the import of fossil fuels would probably diminish at some point anyway. The renewable electricity production mostly comprises hydropower (25.1%) and wood-based energy (about 15%). Solar power is not an option--during winter, every Friday is black Friday here. Wind power would hardly be profitable without the feed-in tariff [2]. Given the ecological issues with hydropower, the limited nature of wood-based power and how inapplicable solar and wind power are here, I personally consider nuclear power to be the most environmentally friendly option if we're to produce more electricity. [1] http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en/StatFin/StatFin__ene__salatuo/030_salatuo_tau_103.px/ http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en/StatFin/StatFin__ene__s... [2] https://www.energiavirasto.fi/web/energy-authority/feed-in-tariff https://www.energiavirasto.fi/web/energy-authority/feed-in-t...

StavrosK 10y ago
> Solar power is not an option--during winter, every Friday is black Friday here Isn't total "total daylight time per year" constant across the earth?
- Ambroos 10y ago
  Probably, but transporting and storing energy are two things that are still very expensive and bad for efficiency. With few hours of daylight in winter times you simply don't generate enough electricity to cope with the demand. It's a hard thing to solve too, the darker and colder it is the more energy people need (light and heating).
  - aianus 10y ago
    > It's a hard thing to solve too, the darker and colder it is the more energy people need (light and heating). I believe peak electricity use is during the bright, hot summer when everyone needs to run the A/C.
    - tulihauki 10y ago
      In warmer climates, yes. Not in Finland, however. Here's a graph of power use and generation in 2015: http://www.fingrid.fi/EN/ELECTRICITY-MARKET/LOAD-AND-GENERATION/Pages/default.aspx?beginDate=20150101&endDate=20151231&showChart=1&showTable=0 http://www.fingrid.fi/EN/ELECTRICITY-MARKET/LOAD-AND-GENERAT...
      - aianus 10y ago
        The way I read it, OP was claiming that in any given place electricity demand goes up precisely when solar generation goes down. Which may be true in Finland but is false in general.
    - kalleboo 10y ago
      Almost nobody in the Nordic countries has A/C. Facebook even built a data center in northern Sweden since a lot of the server cooling requirements can be handled by just pumping in cool outdoor air.
      - doikor 10y ago
        Same thing by Google in Finland but using the sea water from the Gulf of Finland which doesn't get that warm even during the hottest of summers. They used an old closed paper mill so they had large structures ready to make it cheap too. https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/hamina/ https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/ha... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VChOEvKicQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VChOEvKicQQ
        ZeroGravitas 10y ago
        Weirdly, there's also projects that extract heat from the water in Finnish Fjords: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31506073 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31506073
- adrianN 10y ago
  If only power storage were simple.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  > Isn't total "total daylight time per year" constant across the earth? More or less (depending on how you measure). Issues: 1) Storage. If you live at lat 65 you need extreme amounts of heat and lighting in winter, and you need almost no heat and lighting in summer. Massive seasonal energy storage solutions such as aquifers do exist but they are expensive. This is why hydro is so good - it's both renewable AND is perfect for seasonal storage. 2) Incidence. Total daylight that has a good incidence for catching isn't constant across the earth. A lot of the "extra" sunlight that northern finland gets in the summer is in the wee hours of the night. It's not exactly scorching from zenith then. When the sun sits ON the horizon for a few hours, even a small hill on the horizon will ruin your solar power.
  - skriticos2 10y ago
    I would also hazard a guess that the closer to the horizon the Sun is located, the more atmosphere it needs to cross to reach you (because of the lower angle) which results in higher absorption rate before it reaches you (simply said, it's a bit darker the closer you get to the poles). I'm mostly guessing though, so please correct me. ps: I remember seeing the sun in northern Norway at midnight in the summer long time ago when I was visiting. Was just a little bit brighter than the moon usually is. pps: This is the same effect as what the sun looks like just before sunset around the rest of the world.
    - alkonaut 10y ago
      > Was just a little bit brighter than the moon usually is. I think that the difference between the minimum brightness of the sun (at the horizon) and the full moon is still a factor over 100.000 :) Eyes are remarkably nonlinear.
- codedokode 10y ago
  I guess in autumn and winter the sky in Finland is often covered with clouds and the sunlight is reflected back to space. So you cannot get as much energy as some southern desert gets.
buovjaga 10y ago
Solar power (heat/electricity) might not be huge during the winter, but the solar power levels produced in the southern parts of Finland are similar to the ones produced in Northern Germany. http://ilmastokatu.fi/en/solar-power-apartment-buildings/ http://ilmastokatu.fi/en/solar-power-apartment-buildings/

by dancek 10y ago

StavrosK 10y ago

> Solar power is not an option--during winter, every Friday is black Friday here Isn't total "total daylight time per year" constant across the earth?

Ambroos 10y ago
Probably, but transporting and storing energy are two things that are still very expensive and bad for efficiency. With few hours of daylight in winter times you simply don't generate enough electricity to cope with the demand. It's a hard thing to solve too, the darker and colder it is the more energy people need (light and heating).
- aianus 10y ago
  > It's a hard thing to solve too, the darker and colder it is the more energy people need (light and heating). I believe peak electricity use is during the bright, hot summer when everyone needs to run the A/C.
  - tulihauki 10y ago
    In warmer climates, yes. Not in Finland, however. Here's a graph of power use and generation in 2015: http://www.fingrid.fi/EN/ELECTRICITY-MARKET/LOAD-AND-GENERATION/Pages/default.aspx?beginDate=20150101&endDate=20151231&showChart=1&showTable=0 http://www.fingrid.fi/EN/ELECTRICITY-MARKET/LOAD-AND-GENERAT...
    - aianus 10y ago
      The way I read it, OP was claiming that in any given place electricity demand goes up precisely when solar generation goes down. Which may be true in Finland but is false in general.
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    Almost nobody in the Nordic countries has A/C. Facebook even built a data center in northern Sweden since a lot of the server cooling requirements can be handled by just pumping in cool outdoor air.
    - doikor 10y ago
      Same thing by Google in Finland but using the sea water from the Gulf of Finland which doesn't get that warm even during the hottest of summers. They used an old closed paper mill so they had large structures ready to make it cheap too. https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/hamina/ https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/ha... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VChOEvKicQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VChOEvKicQQ
      - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
        Weirdly, there's also projects that extract heat from the water in Finnish Fjords: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31506073 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31506073
adrianN 10y ago
If only power storage were simple.
alkonaut 10y ago
> Isn't total "total daylight time per year" constant across the earth? More or less (depending on how you measure). Issues: 1) Storage. If you live at lat 65 you need extreme amounts of heat and lighting in winter, and you need almost no heat and lighting in summer. Massive seasonal energy storage solutions such as aquifers do exist but they are expensive. This is why hydro is so good - it's both renewable AND is perfect for seasonal storage. 2) Incidence. Total daylight that has a good incidence for catching isn't constant across the earth. A lot of the "extra" sunlight that northern finland gets in the summer is in the wee hours of the night. It's not exactly scorching from zenith then. When the sun sits ON the horizon for a few hours, even a small hill on the horizon will ruin your solar power.
- skriticos2 10y ago
  I would also hazard a guess that the closer to the horizon the Sun is located, the more atmosphere it needs to cross to reach you (because of the lower angle) which results in higher absorption rate before it reaches you (simply said, it's a bit darker the closer you get to the poles). I'm mostly guessing though, so please correct me. ps: I remember seeing the sun in northern Norway at midnight in the summer long time ago when I was visiting. Was just a little bit brighter than the moon usually is. pps: This is the same effect as what the sun looks like just before sunset around the rest of the world.
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    > Was just a little bit brighter than the moon usually is. I think that the difference between the minimum brightness of the sun (at the horizon) and the full moon is still a factor over 100.000 :) Eyes are remarkably nonlinear.
codedokode 10y ago
I guess in autumn and winter the sky in Finland is often covered with clouds and the sunlight is reflected back to space. So you cannot get as much energy as some southern desert gets.

buovjaga 10y ago

Solar power (heat/electricity) might not be huge during the winter, but the solar power levels produced in the southern parts of Finland are similar to the ones produced in Northern Germany. http://ilmastokatu.fi/en/solar-power-apartment-buildings/ http://ilmastokatu.fi/en/solar-power-apartment-buildings/