5 ms·

Is tracking user's actions the only way to improve software? That is not what one would expect from free and open source software project. If developers needs

Is tracking user's actions the only way to improve software? That is not what one would expect from free and open source software project. If developers needs an information about how user uses a program, they should ask them to help.

CJefferson 10y ago
this is going to sound insulting, but have you tried being an open-source developer? I've worked on products with tens of thousands of users, and the vast majority of those users never communicate. Worse (in my opinion), the users who communicate most tend to be experts, leading to programs tending to become better for expert users, and worse for beginners / occasional users -- see for example how many linux programs have options you can turn on to make them more user-friendly, but of course as a beginner how do you find them?
- codedokode 10y ago
  If you look at Google Play Store you will see a lot of comments from non-expert users (you can easily see it from their messages). Maybe that is because writing a comment in Play Store is easier than subscribing to a mailing list many projects still use or registering in a forum. Also maybe they do not say anything because everything works ok for them?
- userbinator 10y ago
  Worse (in my opinion), the users who communicate most tend to be experts, leading to programs tending to become better for expert users, and worse for beginners / occasional users On the other hand, not listening to users but analytics leads to dumbed-down inflexible programs that can't get out of their own way for expert users. If you have "tens of thousands of users" and most of them don't communicate, I'd call that successful. They're satisfied.
- hueving 10y ago
  >I've worked on products with tens of thousands of users, and the vast majority of those users never communicate. And your answer to that is to spy on them unless they read fine-grained details that even the generally expert users on this site missed?
- kuschku 10y ago
  I’ve also worked on products with tens of thousands of users, and while tracking is definitely convenient (I recently added a feature where, on first start, the user is informed that crash reports would be sent, and required them to choose "dismiss" or "opt out" before letting them use the app), but it’s no reason to hide it like this. Nor is it a reason to even try tracking with Google Analytics. In my case, I ensure that the backend server is also FLOSS, that no problematic data is transferred, and so on. All FLOSS, everything verifiable by the users. But running Google Analytics? Without prompting the user? Great...
  - codedokode 10y ago
    I don't think the problem is using Google or not. The problem is that software collects and sends data to a network without user's authorization. It is a package manager, not a program for reporting what software you are installing and how exactly you do that and what operating system you are using and user might not expect such behaviour. Free software is supposed to do what the user wants, not what its developer wants.
AsyncAwait 10y ago
> That is not what one would expect from free and open source software project. Agreed, but please note that Homebrew is only open-source, it is not "free software"[1]. [1] - https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....

CJefferson 10y ago

this is going to sound insulting, but have you tried being an open-source developer? I've worked on products with tens of thousands of users, and the vast majority of those users never communicate. Worse (in my opinion), the users who communicate most tend to be experts, leading to programs tending to become better for expert users, and worse for beginners / occasional users -- see for example how many linux programs have options you can turn on to make them more user-friendly, but of course as a beginner how do you find them?

codedokode 10y ago
If you look at Google Play Store you will see a lot of comments from non-expert users (you can easily see it from their messages). Maybe that is because writing a comment in Play Store is easier than subscribing to a mailing list many projects still use or registering in a forum. Also maybe they do not say anything because everything works ok for them?
userbinator 10y ago
Worse (in my opinion), the users who communicate most tend to be experts, leading to programs tending to become better for expert users, and worse for beginners / occasional users On the other hand, not listening to users but analytics leads to dumbed-down inflexible programs that can't get out of their own way for expert users. If you have "tens of thousands of users" and most of them don't communicate, I'd call that successful. They're satisfied.
hueving 10y ago
>I've worked on products with tens of thousands of users, and the vast majority of those users never communicate. And your answer to that is to spy on them unless they read fine-grained details that even the generally expert users on this site missed?
kuschku 10y ago
I’ve also worked on products with tens of thousands of users, and while tracking is definitely convenient (I recently added a feature where, on first start, the user is informed that crash reports would be sent, and required them to choose "dismiss" or "opt out" before letting them use the app), but it’s no reason to hide it like this. Nor is it a reason to even try tracking with Google Analytics. In my case, I ensure that the backend server is also FLOSS, that no problematic data is transferred, and so on. All FLOSS, everything verifiable by the users. But running Google Analytics? Without prompting the user? Great...
- codedokode 10y ago
  I don't think the problem is using Google or not. The problem is that software collects and sends data to a network without user's authorization. It is a package manager, not a program for reporting what software you are installing and how exactly you do that and what operating system you are using and user might not expect such behaviour. Free software is supposed to do what the user wants, not what its developer wants.

AsyncAwait 10y ago

> That is not what one would expect from free and open source software project. Agreed, but please note that Homebrew is only open-source, it is not "free software"[1]. [1] - https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....