5 ms·

Organ donation?

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Yes, there are arguments for organ donation to be opt-out. But that's extreme case, when one loses literally nothing - by virtue of being already dead - and another person stands to gain additional years of life[0]. Some other socially beneficial things also have strong arguments for being opt-out (like retirement plans, because opt-out protects people from their own stupidity/short-sightedness). But that doesn't change the validity of the proposal that opt-in should be the standard - exceptions from which must have solid reasons. Just making it easier for someone to make money off people is not one of those reasons. Neither is vague "making the product better". -- [0] - INB4 yes, there are also valid arguments that opt-out organ donations will reduce doctors' willingness to fight for patient's life. Human societies are complicated.
- tremon 10y ago
  Yes, there are arguments for organ donation to be opt-out. But that's extreme case, when one loses literally nothing Actually, I've opted out because my next of kin stand to lose quite a lot (the harvesting of organs needs to be done quickly, well within the mourning period of the people I care about the most). The decision to leave sight of my body needs to be theirs, and theirs alone.
  - orf 10y ago
    Well if you can't bear the thought of your friends and relatives not being able to stare at your dead corpse for a couple of hours and value that over doing something amazing and saving someone's life then more fool you. If your in the position to donate organs you most likely died in an accident. You likely won't have that rosy picture of your family and friends around your beside. You might not have anyone. What a waste.
    - tremon 10y ago
      Yes, fuck you too. Try a little empathy next time, and failing that, reading comprehension. I said the decision should be theirs. I did not say my body couldn't be parted from them, I said it was their decision to do so. I used to be registered as a donor, but because the law has now changed that my donorship overrides the wishes of my loved ones, I have withdrawn it.
      - orf 10y ago
        > I said it was their decision to do so And I said they may not be there to give that decision, so that's moot really. Organs like lungs and hearts expire very quickly. Reading comprehension indeed. > Try a little empathy next time For the dead person, or the person who misses out on a life saving organ due to the dead person? It's your body and your choice obviously, but I think saying it's up to my relatives to decide isn't a great reason to be taken off the donor registry. There is plenty of time for them to grieve but only a few hours to take a vital organ. If you want to do something great if you expire unexpectedly then it's up to you, don't put that on your parter/relatives.
rubber_duck 10y ago
Also somewhat related to this - recently I've realized that this privacy paranoia is going to slow down medical advances coming out from big data so much. For example your wearables get to collect so much biometric info, if that data can be connected to detecting conditions early it would provide a lot of value down the road. At some point we will have the option to collect data about what you ate, what you did, where you went and then how that affected your biometrics, and we can inexpensively collect huge scale DNA samples, etc. all that data if available publicly could really provide insights in to things that are really not practical in limited group studies. For reasons such as this I think I'm fine if services collect anonymized (unless we solve identity theft and such security concerns) information about me, I'd just want them to make this data free.
- blub 10y ago
  It's not paranoia, it's simple understanding of history and human nature.
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    Freaking out about disclosed anonymized analytics about package usage in an OSS project is paranoia in my book
    - AsyncAwait 10y ago
      > disclosed Yeah, carrier contracts also "disclose" everything, there's a reason why it's called "small print". It would only take to make it opt-in, instead of opt-out to rectify this.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      May be, but you didn't use the word "paranoia" to describe just this in your previous comment; you described also things like medical information.
      - rubber_duck 10y ago
junke 10y ago
In France, you are a donor by default if you don't opt-out. In 2018, relatives won't be able to oppose organ donation in case of uncertainty.
- jacobush 10y ago
  Then it's their social contract in their democracy.

Organ donation?

Yes, there are arguments for organ donation to be opt-out. But that's extreme case, when one loses literally nothing - by virtue of being already dead - and another person stands to gain additional years of life[0]. Some other socially beneficial things also have strong arguments for being opt-out (like retirement plans, because opt-out protects people from their own stupidity/short-sightedness). But that doesn't change the validity of the proposal that opt-in should be the standard - exceptions from which must have solid reasons. Just making it easier for someone to make money off people is not one of those reasons. Neither is vague "making the product better". -- [0] - INB4 yes, there are also valid arguments that opt-out organ donations will reduce doctors' willingness to fight for patient's life. Human societies are complicated.

tremon 10y ago
Yes, there are arguments for organ donation to be opt-out. But that's extreme case, when one loses literally nothing Actually, I've opted out because my next of kin stand to lose quite a lot (the harvesting of organs needs to be done quickly, well within the mourning period of the people I care about the most). The decision to leave sight of my body needs to be theirs, and theirs alone.
- orf 10y ago
  Well if you can't bear the thought of your friends and relatives not being able to stare at your dead corpse for a couple of hours and value that over doing something amazing and saving someone's life then more fool you. If your in the position to donate organs you most likely died in an accident. You likely won't have that rosy picture of your family and friends around your beside. You might not have anyone. What a waste.
  - tremon 10y ago
    Yes, fuck you too. Try a little empathy next time, and failing that, reading comprehension. I said the decision should be theirs. I did not say my body couldn't be parted from them, I said it was their decision to do so. I used to be registered as a donor, but because the law has now changed that my donorship overrides the wishes of my loved ones, I have withdrawn it.
    - orf 10y ago
      > I said it was their decision to do so And I said they may not be there to give that decision, so that's moot really. Organs like lungs and hearts expire very quickly. Reading comprehension indeed. > Try a little empathy next time For the dead person, or the person who misses out on a life saving organ due to the dead person? It's your body and your choice obviously, but I think saying it's up to my relatives to decide isn't a great reason to be taken off the donor registry. There is plenty of time for them to grieve but only a few hours to take a vital organ. If you want to do something great if you expire unexpectedly then it's up to you, don't put that on your parter/relatives.

rubber_duck 10y ago

Also somewhat related to this - recently I've realized that this privacy paranoia is going to slow down medical advances coming out from big data so much. For example your wearables get to collect so much biometric info, if that data can be connected to detecting conditions early it would provide a lot of value down the road. At some point we will have the option to collect data about what you ate, what you did, where you went and then how that affected your biometrics, and we can inexpensively collect huge scale DNA samples, etc. all that data if available publicly could really provide insights in to things that are really not practical in limited group studies. For reasons such as this I think I'm fine if services collect anonymized (unless we solve identity theft and such security concerns) information about me, I'd just want them to make this data free.

blub 10y ago
It's not paranoia, it's simple understanding of history and human nature.
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  Freaking out about disclosed anonymized analytics about package usage in an OSS project is paranoia in my book
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    > disclosed Yeah, carrier contracts also "disclose" everything, there's a reason why it's called "small print". It would only take to make it opt-in, instead of opt-out to rectify this.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    May be, but you didn't use the word "paranoia" to describe just this in your previous comment; you described also things like medical information.
    - rubber_duck 10y ago

junke 10y ago

In France, you are a donor by default if you don't opt-out. In 2018, relatives won't be able to oppose organ donation in case of uncertainty.

jacobush 10y ago
Then it's their social contract in their democracy.