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Yes, many white people have gone to prison, but it has taken enormous and egregious cases for that to happen. Usually, a brown or other disliked minority fall-

Yes, many white people have gone to prison, but it has taken enormous and egregious cases for that to happen. Usually, a brown or other disliked minority fall-person will go to jail and to quell public outrage. Consider the 2008 crisis, yes some white Americans went to jail, but the major (only?) prosecution at Goldman Sachs for example was https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Tourre https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Tourre Were his emails damning? Yes, but lets not pretend he was anything but the most low-level fall guy, conveniently with a heavy french accent -- Americans love to hate him. Also, Rajat Gupta and Raj Rajaratnam were certainly dirty, but their prosecution was the highest profile one post-2008 and it was more an insider trading case, not actually going after CDO fraud. No one at AIG-FP or Goldman Sachs got prosecuted, almost none got prosecuted anywhere. Flash Crash -- lets find a young Indian guy and blame it on him. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-flash-crash-trader-who-made-40m-from-his-bedroom-will-be-extradited-a7361706.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-flash-cr... Nevermind that spoofing is a widespread industry practice in America... Prosecutors will go after easy cases AND those that quell public calls for blood. Holmes does not "look" criminal to the typical American, so I bet she walks away -- your average voter/citizen would not be happy if she goes to prison. My bet is a lower-level Chinese/Indian/Mexican(!) or some other minority goes to jail for this. They may well be guilty so I wont argue it is cooked-up or anything, but likely wont be the actual [white] person at the top.

ecorealist 10y ago
Also, instead of down-voting inconvenient facts presented with examples perhaps post counter-examples. Or just continue to live in a pretend-bubble i suppose.
edblarney 10y ago
"Consider the 2008 crisis, yes some white Americans went to jail, but the major (only?) " The 2008 crises was not built on outright fraud by most of the banks. They didn't commit any crimes for the most part. Individuals lied on their applications, bank managers overlooked it, VP of Mortgage Sales for banks didn't want to hear about underperforming loans, ratings agencies didn't want to due proper due dilligence, German and Japanese banks buying the crap were too lazy to do any due diligence ... and it came down. There was 'systematic, greed, stupidity and irresponsibility' across the board - home buyers included. It was not caused by some cabal of bankers specifically doing something illegal.
- CalChris 10y ago
  > The 2008 crises was not built on outright fraud by most of the banks. ... It was not caused by some cabal of bankers specifically doing something illegal. That is not true. Why Only One Top Banker Went to Jail for the Financial Crisis http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/magazine/only-one-top-banker-jail-financial-crisis.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/magazine/only-one-top-bank...
  - ecorealist 10y ago
    Thanks for posing this article. Kareem Serageldin was certainly guilty but actually goes to strengthen my original argument -- it is rare to find Arab financiers on Wall St, it is telling that the one prosecution on the 2008 CDO disaster is an Arab guy!
  - goseeastarwar 10y ago
    As Larry Summers said on a recent episode of "The Axe Files" podcast, you can't litigate bankers being stupid.
- colemickens 10y ago
  No, just no. There was clear and obvious fraud. At banks. At rating agencies. At investment firms. In the government. And pretty blatant coordination between some players, including among some that were supposed to be regulating and watching for the sort of fraud that occurred and was allowed to occur. The Big Short covers this in an entertaining fashion. Alternatively, http://dafacto.com/2011/the-big-short-a-brief-summary-of-the-2008-financial-collapse/ http://dafacto.com/2011/the-big-short-a-brief-summary-of-the... edit: I apologize, I edited later than I should have (mostly just rearranged words).
  - edblarney 10y ago
    "I'll pay you to go watch The Big Short and then try to tell me that again" That's the problem with 'The Big Short'. It's a terrible film because it mostly points the finger at bankers as somehow 'guilty of some crime' - and they are not. They are 'guilty' of doing some things, but not breaking the law for the most part, and they didn't get into some other issues, particularly they didn't want to point fingers at the millions of Americans who lied on their mortgage applications. There weren't really any crimes obviously committed in the 'big short'. Maybe the hucksters in Florida overlooking issues on loan applications. Maybe the ratings agencies ... but it would be extremely hard to prove this one. Ultimately, the banks stupidly gave credit to people they should not have, and it inflated really badly and got out of hand. Stupid lazy bankers all around bought crap without doing due diligence and they paid the price. It was people making a lot of bad bets due to the underlying failure of information the system. All the individuals lying on their loan forms are at least as guilty as anyone else. "At banks. At rating agencies. At investment firms. In the government" You'll have to list specific examples, because I see greedy people making stupid decisions, not fraud. The ratings agencies didn't commit 'fraud' - they did not accept 'money to change their ratings', this would be fraud. What they didn't do well is their actual jobs, because to do it well would have meant less business. So this was a conflict of interest that led to a really bad outcome, but it's not outright fraud.
awongh 10y ago
off topic, but is that true about the Flash Crash guy? Do you have a reference? I have only read the headlines about the case's current state.
- ecorealist 10y ago
  I certainly dont know if he is guilty or not, he very well may be. My point was more that it is common practice. So common there is a widely used name for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoofing_(finance) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoofing_(finance)
spraak 10y ago
Your awareness of racial injustice is refreshing to find on HN, thank you!
hnthrowaway95 10y ago
Yes, all those "white" people getting away with white collar crime while poor, innocent brown people are made scapegoats, such as Lloyd Blankfein, the chairman of Goldman Sachs, or Gary Cohn, its president, or Steven A. Cohen, the most notorious, blatant inside-trader on Wall Street... Strange. There's something those "white" people have in common, along with countless other crooked financiers on Wall Street, but alas, I can't quite put my finger on it.

ecorealist 10y ago

Also, instead of down-voting inconvenient facts presented with examples perhaps post counter-examples. Or just continue to live in a pretend-bubble i suppose.

edblarney 10y ago

"Consider the 2008 crisis, yes some white Americans went to jail, but the major (only?) " The 2008 crises was not built on outright fraud by most of the banks. They didn't commit any crimes for the most part. Individuals lied on their applications, bank managers overlooked it, VP of Mortgage Sales for banks didn't want to hear about underperforming loans, ratings agencies didn't want to due proper due dilligence, German and Japanese banks buying the crap were too lazy to do any due diligence ... and it came down. There was 'systematic, greed, stupidity and irresponsibility' across the board - home buyers included. It was not caused by some cabal of bankers specifically doing something illegal.

CalChris 10y ago
> The 2008 crises was not built on outright fraud by most of the banks. ... It was not caused by some cabal of bankers specifically doing something illegal. That is not true. Why Only One Top Banker Went to Jail for the Financial Crisis http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/magazine/only-one-top-banker-jail-financial-crisis.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/magazine/only-one-top-bank...
- ecorealist 10y ago
  Thanks for posing this article. Kareem Serageldin was certainly guilty but actually goes to strengthen my original argument -- it is rare to find Arab financiers on Wall St, it is telling that the one prosecution on the 2008 CDO disaster is an Arab guy!
- goseeastarwar 10y ago
  As Larry Summers said on a recent episode of "The Axe Files" podcast, you can't litigate bankers being stupid.
colemickens 10y ago
No, just no. There was clear and obvious fraud. At banks. At rating agencies. At investment firms. In the government. And pretty blatant coordination between some players, including among some that were supposed to be regulating and watching for the sort of fraud that occurred and was allowed to occur. The Big Short covers this in an entertaining fashion. Alternatively, http://dafacto.com/2011/the-big-short-a-brief-summary-of-the-2008-financial-collapse/ http://dafacto.com/2011/the-big-short-a-brief-summary-of-the... edit: I apologize, I edited later than I should have (mostly just rearranged words).
- edblarney 10y ago
  "I'll pay you to go watch The Big Short and then try to tell me that again" That's the problem with 'The Big Short'. It's a terrible film because it mostly points the finger at bankers as somehow 'guilty of some crime' - and they are not. They are 'guilty' of doing some things, but not breaking the law for the most part, and they didn't get into some other issues, particularly they didn't want to point fingers at the millions of Americans who lied on their mortgage applications. There weren't really any crimes obviously committed in the 'big short'. Maybe the hucksters in Florida overlooking issues on loan applications. Maybe the ratings agencies ... but it would be extremely hard to prove this one. Ultimately, the banks stupidly gave credit to people they should not have, and it inflated really badly and got out of hand. Stupid lazy bankers all around bought crap without doing due diligence and they paid the price. It was people making a lot of bad bets due to the underlying failure of information the system. All the individuals lying on their loan forms are at least as guilty as anyone else. "At banks. At rating agencies. At investment firms. In the government" You'll have to list specific examples, because I see greedy people making stupid decisions, not fraud. The ratings agencies didn't commit 'fraud' - they did not accept 'money to change their ratings', this would be fraud. What they didn't do well is their actual jobs, because to do it well would have meant less business. So this was a conflict of interest that led to a really bad outcome, but it's not outright fraud.

awongh 10y ago

off topic, but is that true about the Flash Crash guy? Do you have a reference? I have only read the headlines about the case's current state.

ecorealist 10y ago
I certainly dont know if he is guilty or not, he very well may be. My point was more that it is common practice. So common there is a widely used name for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoofing_(finance) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoofing_(finance)

spraak 10y ago

Your awareness of racial injustice is refreshing to find on HN, thank you!

hnthrowaway95 10y ago

Yes, all those "white" people getting away with white collar crime while poor, innocent brown people are made scapegoats, such as Lloyd Blankfein, the chairman of Goldman Sachs, or Gary Cohn, its president, or Steven A. Cohen, the most notorious, blatant inside-trader on Wall Street... Strange. There's something those "white" people have in common, along with countless other crooked financiers on Wall Street, but alas, I can't quite put my finger on it.