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>I'm going to seem like an elitist prick, but in my opinion DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose. Basic 2 decks DJing is fucking boring Exh

>I'm going to seem like an elitist prick, but in my opinion DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose. Basic 2 decks DJing is fucking boring Exhibit A for the defence: this utterly masterful set by garage legend DJ EZ. He deftly plays with the build and release of tension without relying on formulaic drops. There is still enormous creative mileage in traditional two-deck mixing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraL6lKoyXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraL6lKoyXE Selectors don't even mix in the traditional sense, nor do they compose or produce, but there's a tremendous art to what they do. If you're unfamiliar with sound system culture and clashing, I'd suggest the Red Bull Culture Clash as an accessible introduction, particularly Rebel Sound's 2014 performance starring the inimitable David Rodigan. It's worth watching the "making of" documentary on their performance; it took months of painstaking preparation to play 40 minutes of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDSgMddOO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDSgMddOO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ishaG9pyMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ishaG9pyMA The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. Back in the day you needed decks, you needed to learn to beatmatch, you needed to hunt down white labels, you needed to get dubplates cut. There was a barrier to entry, an apprenticeship you had to serve before you could call yourself a DJ. The term has now been diluted to the point of meaninglessness, but that doesn't diminish from the artistry of great DJs.

dpc59 10y ago
>The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. This is the point I was trying to make. I'm very familiar with soundsystem culture, I've been making a living from it since I was 17. Obviously there's some good sounding stuff you can do while mixing on two decks, you just gave decent examples, but in my opinion it's never going to be as mind blowing as Birdy Nam Nam or Araabmuzik absolutely killing it on some freestyle stuff. It's never going to beat a great vinyl jungle set with an experienced scratcher, and it's certainly not going to beat some of the crazy live sets people in the downtempo psytrance scene play. I went to a rave on halloween, and there was these two guys doing a live set. One guy was just doing regular 2 decks stuff for the rythmic section, while the other guy had an mpc, a controller and electronic drums plugged into his computer for the melodies. It was great seeing the drums used as melody, I've seen thousands of sets in my life and I was mind blown. There are no videos of him playing live, but here's his soundcloud. https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally
- angersock 10y ago
  A little off-topic, but why is there just so much good music out of Montreal? And any more good recs for somebody who likes swa-swally and mstrkrft?
  - ericzawo 10y ago
    Lunice, Kaytranada and Tommy Kruise are worth looking in to.
  - bigmanwalter 10y ago
    Montreal has cheap rent and everyone who's career focused leaves for Toronto or New York. In their wake is our amazing music scene :)
kakoni 10y ago
Here's another wizard at work, Jeff Mills doing his thing with 3 turntables and a mixer. Absolutely brilliant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtw2-kL32YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtw2-kL32YM
- cr1895 10y ago
  There's another of him working 4! turntables and a synth. Dude is a legend.
sdnguyen90 10y ago
I think the track selection and the crowds reaction will go over peoples heads who aren't familiar with garage. A lot of tracks EZ dropped in that set were huge in the 90's and early 2000's (in terms of the garage scene). If you live in London, its likely you would get nostalgic over those songs. You probably aren't going to get the same reaction in most of the US.
gerryk 10y ago
That DJ EZ mix is excellent. Reminds me of everything I love about the London electronic music scene.
sangnoir 10y ago
> Selectors don't even mix in the traditional sense, nor do they compose or produce, but there's a tremendous art to what they do. I disagree with you on not composing or producing - at least at the highest level of sound clashes. I skipped around a bit in the Red Bull video you linked, and each and every song I encountered was re-recorded (by the original singers) specifically for this event with tweaked lyrics denigrating the challenging sound systems of the day, in line with clash norms. I agree there is tremendous art, but there is a lot of production around re-recording songs. It's a level above just mixing. I never expected to discuss Sound System / sound clashes on HN - this is a delightful surprise.
- jdietrich 10y ago
  Clash dubplates are traditionally cut at the original studio by the original producer, by request of the sound system. I suppose it depends on your definition of "producer". I'd consider the role of a clash selector as part DJ, part A&R - as much as anything, their skill is for identifying talent and making the connections required to get exclusive dubs cut. Rodigan is such a dominant figure in the clash scene because of the mutual respect between him and the Jamaican music scene. He can get dubs that no-one else can, because he has served Jamaican music faithfully over many decades. Through thick and thin, he promoted Jamaican music in Britain and internationally. His career speaks more broadly to the vital role that DJs play in musical culture. DJs are the link between artists and audiences. They curate, they encourage, they introduce. What they do in the booth is the product of their work, not the work itself. http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/david-rodigan-2012-lecture http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/david-rodigan-20...
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    This is why I'm not a fan of protecting your playlists as a performer. I understand when some performers have stems or remixes which aren't available anywhere public, but renaming tracks / hiding playlists / refusing to tell anyone "what song that was" always just comes off as a dick move to me.
Omnius 10y ago
Having to get two tech 1200, a decent mixer, headphones, and some monitors raised the entry level. Then you had the effort of having to learn to beat mix vinyl. Not hard but time consuming, for most, in the begining. Its weeded out the masses. Now the tech has taken the learning curve out and i am not saying thats good or bad but its why there are a million "producer" "Dj's".

dpc59 10y ago

>The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. This is the point I was trying to make. I'm very familiar with soundsystem culture, I've been making a living from it since I was 17. Obviously there's some good sounding stuff you can do while mixing on two decks, you just gave decent examples, but in my opinion it's never going to be as mind blowing as Birdy Nam Nam or Araabmuzik absolutely killing it on some freestyle stuff. It's never going to beat a great vinyl jungle set with an experienced scratcher, and it's certainly not going to beat some of the crazy live sets people in the downtempo psytrance scene play. I went to a rave on halloween, and there was these two guys doing a live set. One guy was just doing regular 2 decks stuff for the rythmic section, while the other guy had an mpc, a controller and electronic drums plugged into his computer for the melodies. It was great seeing the drums used as melody, I've seen thousands of sets in my life and I was mind blown. There are no videos of him playing live, but here's his soundcloud. https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally

angersock 10y ago
A little off-topic, but why is there just so much good music out of Montreal? And any more good recs for somebody who likes swa-swally and mstrkrft?
- ericzawo 10y ago
  Lunice, Kaytranada and Tommy Kruise are worth looking in to.
- bigmanwalter 10y ago
  Montreal has cheap rent and everyone who's career focused leaves for Toronto or New York. In their wake is our amazing music scene :)

kakoni 10y ago

Here's another wizard at work, Jeff Mills doing his thing with 3 turntables and a mixer. Absolutely brilliant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtw2-kL32YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtw2-kL32YM

cr1895 10y ago
There's another of him working 4! turntables and a synth. Dude is a legend.

sdnguyen90 10y ago

I think the track selection and the crowds reaction will go over peoples heads who aren't familiar with garage. A lot of tracks EZ dropped in that set were huge in the 90's and early 2000's (in terms of the garage scene). If you live in London, its likely you would get nostalgic over those songs. You probably aren't going to get the same reaction in most of the US.

gerryk 10y ago

That DJ EZ mix is excellent. Reminds me of everything I love about the London electronic music scene.

sangnoir 10y ago

> Selectors don't even mix in the traditional sense, nor do they compose or produce, but there's a tremendous art to what they do. I disagree with you on not composing or producing - at least at the highest level of sound clashes. I skipped around a bit in the Red Bull video you linked, and each and every song I encountered was re-recorded (by the original singers) specifically for this event with tweaked lyrics denigrating the challenging sound systems of the day, in line with clash norms. I agree there is tremendous art, but there is a lot of production around re-recording songs. It's a level above just mixing. I never expected to discuss Sound System / sound clashes on HN - this is a delightful surprise.

jdietrich 10y ago
Clash dubplates are traditionally cut at the original studio by the original producer, by request of the sound system. I suppose it depends on your definition of "producer". I'd consider the role of a clash selector as part DJ, part A&R - as much as anything, their skill is for identifying talent and making the connections required to get exclusive dubs cut. Rodigan is such a dominant figure in the clash scene because of the mutual respect between him and the Jamaican music scene. He can get dubs that no-one else can, because he has served Jamaican music faithfully over many decades. Through thick and thin, he promoted Jamaican music in Britain and internationally. His career speaks more broadly to the vital role that DJs play in musical culture. DJs are the link between artists and audiences. They curate, they encourage, they introduce. What they do in the booth is the product of their work, not the work itself. http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/david-rodigan-2012-lecture http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/david-rodigan-20...
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  This is why I'm not a fan of protecting your playlists as a performer. I understand when some performers have stems or remixes which aren't available anywhere public, but renaming tracks / hiding playlists / refusing to tell anyone "what song that was" always just comes off as a dick move to me.

Omnius 10y ago

Having to get two tech 1200, a decent mixer, headphones, and some monitors raised the entry level. Then you had the effort of having to learn to beat mix vinyl. Not hard but time consuming, for most, in the begining. Its weeded out the masses. Now the tech has taken the learning curve out and i am not saying thats good or bad but its why there are a million "producer" "Dj's".