6 ms·

I'm going to seem like an elitist prick, but in my opinion DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose. Basic 2 decks DJing is fucking boring, lear

by dpc59 10y ago

I'm going to seem like an elitist prick, but in my opinion DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose. Basic 2 decks DJing is fucking boring, learn how to play instruments and all the theory behind pop music, then figure out the software and hardware to play live sets. Obviously you're going to need to understand the basics of mixing to play live sets, but playing a regular DJ set in front of an audience to me is the same thing as covering stairway to heaven or wonderwall. Keep practicing until you're actually good. All of my friends who could play instruments had a much easier time getting into producing than the people who never learned a single scale. And it's not just the composition aspect, it's all the sound design, sampling and just understand the programs that gets easier.

Rifu 10y ago
Seems a little harsh to label it as absolutely useless. How is it any different from learning to play the piano to play your favorite piano pieces? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by produce?
sp3n 10y ago
quite far from basic mixing with 2 decks, turntablism requires similar skills to playing an instrument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc
thedaniel 10y ago
> I'm going to seem like an elitist prick Great tip, if you feel the need to start a comment like this, don't post it.
aidos 10y ago
Yeah, that is really elitist. And it's just your opinion, so you're allowed to hold it :) A good DJ can make the difference between a mediocre party and a really amazing party. I agree that the more tools in your arsenal, the better you'll be but don't brush off what can be achieved with 2 turntables and a really good knowledge of music.
- Ace17 10y ago
  > A good DJ can make the difference between a mediocre party and a really amazing party. I hear this a lot. However, this sounds like rationalization of DJing competences. Are there ways to check such a statement?
  - clappski 10y ago
    Going to some party's and raves would be a good start, it's like asking how can you measure how good a piece of music is (very difficultly!)
  - aidos 10y ago
    Music is really subjective - and I'm not aware of a way to quantify the impact of music generally. The same challenge applies to a musical "artists", but justification of the skills of DJs is often demanded, where the skills of artists isn't. Why is that? From the perspective of someone who had gone through the learning journey, I know full well the difference between my abilities when I begin and now (and there's still a lot of space for me to improve). Those first times I DJed were fairly horrible experiences for everyone - most of all me. What can we figure out though? There are really just a couple of main dimensions to consider, song selection and how those songs are put together. Song selections are crucial to DJing and you can think of it in terms of tailoring the music to the environment. Whether you have 2 turntables or not, this is the most important part. Maybe you have a someone putting on other people's mix tapes - understanding the energy and environment are still crucial. I've seen people who are accomplished musicians get this very wrong. It's not something that comes of being a good musician, it's a totally different skill-set. So before you even look at the medium (turntables), I think we can agree that there's a skill involved in being able to apply music to enhance the environment. Then there's the turntable aspect. If you give someone with the skills to apply the right music an infinite supply of music and an mp3 player they'll struggle to make the experience smooth. A pause in the music is going to kill the energy in the room. But that's just the start. You can change the energy just by moving through tracks faster, before you even start looking at the interesting ways you can put the music together. Not only that, but pretty much every DJ setup these days is digital with much more you can do to the music in the mix. It's like lighting - take a perfectly good party and put strip lighting in. It's all about creating the right environment. Music is a big part of that - though I suspect I'm more aware of it than other people.
jdietrich 10y ago
>I'm going to seem like an elitist prick, but in my opinion DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose. Basic 2 decks DJing is fucking boring Exhibit A for the defence: this utterly masterful set by garage legend DJ EZ. He deftly plays with the build and release of tension without relying on formulaic drops. There is still enormous creative mileage in traditional two-deck mixing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraL6lKoyXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraL6lKoyXE Selectors don't even mix in the traditional sense, nor do they compose or produce, but there's a tremendous art to what they do. If you're unfamiliar with sound system culture and clashing, I'd suggest the Red Bull Culture Clash as an accessible introduction, particularly Rebel Sound's 2014 performance starring the inimitable David Rodigan. It's worth watching the "making of" documentary on their performance; it took months of painstaking preparation to play 40 minutes of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDSgMddOO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDSgMddOO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ishaG9pyMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ishaG9pyMA The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. Back in the day you needed decks, you needed to learn to beatmatch, you needed to hunt down white labels, you needed to get dubplates cut. There was a barrier to entry, an apprenticeship you had to serve before you could call yourself a DJ. The term has now been diluted to the point of meaninglessness, but that doesn't diminish from the artistry of great DJs.
- dpc59 10y ago
  >The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. This is the point I was trying to make. I'm very familiar with soundsystem culture, I've been making a living from it since I was 17. Obviously there's some good sounding stuff you can do while mixing on two decks, you just gave decent examples, but in my opinion it's never going to be as mind blowing as Birdy Nam Nam or Araabmuzik absolutely killing it on some freestyle stuff. It's never going to beat a great vinyl jungle set with an experienced scratcher, and it's certainly not going to beat some of the crazy live sets people in the downtempo psytrance scene play. I went to a rave on halloween, and there was these two guys doing a live set. One guy was just doing regular 2 decks stuff for the rythmic section, while the other guy had an mpc, a controller and electronic drums plugged into his computer for the melodies. It was great seeing the drums used as melody, I've seen thousands of sets in my life and I was mind blown. There are no videos of him playing live, but here's his soundcloud. https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally
nnd 10y ago
I see where you are coming from, but masterful DJing takes much more than switching from desk A to desk B. Song selection is crucial, it's even more important than transitions, moreover you need to play the right music to the right audience. Those things you won't find in tutorials, and that's what makes a great DJ set great. On top of that you can combine producing with playing live by adding effects, creatively transitioning between songs and cue jumping, this takes a lot of skill too.
- Ericson2314 10y ago
  As someone who plays lots of music, but never listens to music because its just too much of a chore, I appreciate that a good DJ can find a form in multiple songs none of which I ever have any chance of know about myself.
  - barbs 10y ago
    That's interesting, I'm the opposite - I listen to loads of music but don't play much. I would've thought one would lead to the other, but I guess not.
    - Ericson2314 10y ago
      Never too late to learn one!
barbs 10y ago
You say: > DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose But then give no reason for this to be the case. You imply that DJing takes less skill than composing/producing/performing, and that may be true, but that doesn't make DJing useless if done on its own. "Elitist prick" indeed.
empath75 10y ago
There are different kinds of djing, and 'boring' sets where you just mix two records together all night are a skill all their own. Sometimes people want the DJ to disappear so they can focus on dancing all night. They don't want someone scratching or doing live remixes. They want to just get in a groove and feel time stop while an endless beat plays. It's really hard to keep a crowd like that dancing all night when you aren't performing. I've had 1000 people jumping up and down and screaming and I was just standing there doing nothing while a record played. You really need to know what the crowd wants to get them there and the difference between getting people amped up and just having them wander away from the dance floor is subtle.
ovao 10y ago
I'm having a hard time understanding where this comment is coming from. I can understand if your exposure to DJs has been limited (I'm sure we've all seen performers who are just about useless at truly engaging crowds), but there are some who are genuine performers behind the decks. Not just from the perspective of technical proficiency, but also of artistry. I'll argue that the actual instrument doesn't matter. A mixer and a pair of turntables (or CDJs, or a laptop) can, in an artist's hands, produce as engaging an experience as a "live" setup. The comparison between DJing and covering Stairway is very misguided, in my opinion, because it implies that the former is as inherently devoid of artistry as the latter. That's simply not the case.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Yep, and I've also heard performance set-ups which sucked. I've heard Araabmuzik mess up pretty badly live (he's normally phenomenal). For me, it's interesting in that it humanizes him a bit; "hey, I get to fly around the world tapping on my MPC to make crowds go wild, but I'm not perfect". Controllerism is a whole other thing, and if you're curious, go read about it / listen to it / go to some meet-ups / shows. It's big in the Bay Area and many other places. The monome community in particular is really awesome (I'm sure many are but that's the one I have some limited personal experience with). The best part of different music scenes IMO is the variety and the people. You get a bunch of random weirdos together and play with putting your own spins on a genre, twisting it and pulling it into your own direction while making nods to those who came before you. You use the right samples, sometimes with your own personal touches, as tiny musical shout-outs to the other people in the scene; the musical family you've chosen. The audience is in on the fun and the jokes too. It's the sort of thing which tickles the brain in a manner unmatched by other worldly pursuits.
  - ovao 10y ago
    Absolutely. One of my favorite performers (Daedelus) uses a monome for his live setup, and there's nothing on Earth like a Daedelus set. It would be exceedingly difficult (or essentially impossible) to specifically match or emulate what he does with a 'traditional' DJ's setup. That's not to say that what he or other live performers do is inherently better than someone proficient with turntables, of course. He chooses a monome as his primary tool to achieve the type of performance he strives for, and for some, a controller like that is simply not the right tool. To me, it's all good — the hardware involved has little to no effect on how well a performer can match or exceed my expectations.

by dpc59 10y ago

Rifu 10y ago

Seems a little harsh to label it as absolutely useless. How is it any different from learning to play the piano to play your favorite piano pieces? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by produce?

sp3n 10y ago

quite far from basic mixing with 2 decks, turntablism requires similar skills to playing an instrument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc

thedaniel 10y ago

> I'm going to seem like an elitist prick Great tip, if you feel the need to start a comment like this, don't post it.

aidos 10y ago

Yeah, that is really elitist. And it's just your opinion, so you're allowed to hold it :) A good DJ can make the difference between a mediocre party and a really amazing party. I agree that the more tools in your arsenal, the better you'll be but don't brush off what can be achieved with 2 turntables and a really good knowledge of music.

Ace17 10y ago
> A good DJ can make the difference between a mediocre party and a really amazing party. I hear this a lot. However, this sounds like rationalization of DJing competences. Are there ways to check such a statement?
- clappski 10y ago
  Going to some party's and raves would be a good start, it's like asking how can you measure how good a piece of music is (very difficultly!)
- aidos 10y ago
  Music is really subjective - and I'm not aware of a way to quantify the impact of music generally. The same challenge applies to a musical "artists", but justification of the skills of DJs is often demanded, where the skills of artists isn't. Why is that? From the perspective of someone who had gone through the learning journey, I know full well the difference between my abilities when I begin and now (and there's still a lot of space for me to improve). Those first times I DJed were fairly horrible experiences for everyone - most of all me. What can we figure out though? There are really just a couple of main dimensions to consider, song selection and how those songs are put together. Song selections are crucial to DJing and you can think of it in terms of tailoring the music to the environment. Whether you have 2 turntables or not, this is the most important part. Maybe you have a someone putting on other people's mix tapes - understanding the energy and environment are still crucial. I've seen people who are accomplished musicians get this very wrong. It's not something that comes of being a good musician, it's a totally different skill-set. So before you even look at the medium (turntables), I think we can agree that there's a skill involved in being able to apply music to enhance the environment. Then there's the turntable aspect. If you give someone with the skills to apply the right music an infinite supply of music and an mp3 player they'll struggle to make the experience smooth. A pause in the music is going to kill the energy in the room. But that's just the start. You can change the energy just by moving through tracks faster, before you even start looking at the interesting ways you can put the music together. Not only that, but pretty much every DJ setup these days is digital with much more you can do to the music in the mix. It's like lighting - take a perfectly good party and put strip lighting in. It's all about creating the right environment. Music is a big part of that - though I suspect I'm more aware of it than other people.

jdietrich 10y ago

>I'm going to seem like an elitist prick, but in my opinion DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose. Basic 2 decks DJing is fucking boring Exhibit A for the defence: this utterly masterful set by garage legend DJ EZ. He deftly plays with the build and release of tension without relying on formulaic drops. There is still enormous creative mileage in traditional two-deck mixing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraL6lKoyXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraL6lKoyXE Selectors don't even mix in the traditional sense, nor do they compose or produce, but there's a tremendous art to what they do. If you're unfamiliar with sound system culture and clashing, I'd suggest the Red Bull Culture Clash as an accessible introduction, particularly Rebel Sound's 2014 performance starring the inimitable David Rodigan. It's worth watching the "making of" documentary on their performance; it took months of painstaking preparation to play 40 minutes of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDSgMddOO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDSgMddOO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ishaG9pyMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ishaG9pyMA The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. Back in the day you needed decks, you needed to learn to beatmatch, you needed to hunt down white labels, you needed to get dubplates cut. There was a barrier to entry, an apprenticeship you had to serve before you could call yourself a DJ. The term has now been diluted to the point of meaninglessness, but that doesn't diminish from the artistry of great DJs.

dpc59 10y ago
>The problem as I see it is that technology has made DJing too accessible. Every two-bit hipster with a Macbook thinks that they're a DJ. This is the point I was trying to make. I'm very familiar with soundsystem culture, I've been making a living from it since I was 17. Obviously there's some good sounding stuff you can do while mixing on two decks, you just gave decent examples, but in my opinion it's never going to be as mind blowing as Birdy Nam Nam or Araabmuzik absolutely killing it on some freestyle stuff. It's never going to beat a great vinyl jungle set with an experienced scratcher, and it's certainly not going to beat some of the crazy live sets people in the downtempo psytrance scene play. I went to a rave on halloween, and there was these two guys doing a live set. One guy was just doing regular 2 decks stuff for the rythmic section, while the other guy had an mpc, a controller and electronic drums plugged into his computer for the melodies. It was great seeing the drums used as melody, I've seen thousands of sets in my life and I was mind blown. There are no videos of him playing live, but here's his soundcloud. https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally https://soundcloud.com/swa-swally

nnd 10y ago

I see where you are coming from, but masterful DJing takes much more than switching from desk A to desk B. Song selection is crucial, it's even more important than transitions, moreover you need to play the right music to the right audience. Those things you won't find in tutorials, and that's what makes a great DJ set great. On top of that you can combine producing with playing live by adding effects, creatively transitioning between songs and cue jumping, this takes a lot of skill too.

Ericson2314 10y ago
As someone who plays lots of music, but never listens to music because its just too much of a chore, I appreciate that a good DJ can find a form in multiple songs none of which I ever have any chance of know about myself.
- barbs 10y ago
  That's interesting, I'm the opposite - I listen to loads of music but don't play much. I would've thought one would lead to the other, but I guess not.
  - Ericson2314 10y ago
    Never too late to learn one!

barbs 10y ago

You say: > DJing is absolutely useless if you don't produce/compose But then give no reason for this to be the case. You imply that DJing takes less skill than composing/producing/performing, and that may be true, but that doesn't make DJing useless if done on its own. "Elitist prick" indeed.

empath75 10y ago

There are different kinds of djing, and 'boring' sets where you just mix two records together all night are a skill all their own. Sometimes people want the DJ to disappear so they can focus on dancing all night. They don't want someone scratching or doing live remixes. They want to just get in a groove and feel time stop while an endless beat plays. It's really hard to keep a crowd like that dancing all night when you aren't performing. I've had 1000 people jumping up and down and screaming and I was just standing there doing nothing while a record played. You really need to know what the crowd wants to get them there and the difference between getting people amped up and just having them wander away from the dance floor is subtle.

ovao 10y ago

I'm having a hard time understanding where this comment is coming from. I can understand if your exposure to DJs has been limited (I'm sure we've all seen performers who are just about useless at truly engaging crowds), but there are some who are genuine performers behind the decks. Not just from the perspective of technical proficiency, but also of artistry. I'll argue that the actual instrument doesn't matter. A mixer and a pair of turntables (or CDJs, or a laptop) can, in an artist's hands, produce as engaging an experience as a "live" setup. The comparison between DJing and covering Stairway is very misguided, in my opinion, because it implies that the former is as inherently devoid of artistry as the latter. That's simply not the case.

seanp2k2 10y ago
Yep, and I've also heard performance set-ups which sucked. I've heard Araabmuzik mess up pretty badly live (he's normally phenomenal). For me, it's interesting in that it humanizes him a bit; "hey, I get to fly around the world tapping on my MPC to make crowds go wild, but I'm not perfect". Controllerism is a whole other thing, and if you're curious, go read about it / listen to it / go to some meet-ups / shows. It's big in the Bay Area and many other places. The monome community in particular is really awesome (I'm sure many are but that's the one I have some limited personal experience with). The best part of different music scenes IMO is the variety and the people. You get a bunch of random weirdos together and play with putting your own spins on a genre, twisting it and pulling it into your own direction while making nods to those who came before you. You use the right samples, sometimes with your own personal touches, as tiny musical shout-outs to the other people in the scene; the musical family you've chosen. The audience is in on the fun and the jokes too. It's the sort of thing which tickles the brain in a manner unmatched by other worldly pursuits.
- ovao 10y ago
  Absolutely. One of my favorite performers (Daedelus) uses a monome for his live setup, and there's nothing on Earth like a Daedelus set. It would be exceedingly difficult (or essentially impossible) to specifically match or emulate what he does with a 'traditional' DJ's setup. That's not to say that what he or other live performers do is inherently better than someone proficient with turntables, of course. He chooses a monome as his primary tool to achieve the type of performance he strives for, and for some, a controller like that is simply not the right tool. To me, it's all good — the hardware involved has little to no effect on how well a performer can match or exceed my expectations.