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This is getting comical. He's writing like he's prophesying the coming end of Python 3 and he must be right because his book sales aren't down. There's plenty

This is getting comical. He's writing like he's prophesying the coming end of Python 3 and he must be right because his book sales aren't down. There's plenty of mediocre in Python 3 along with the good. A lot of things that can be done better. If he were spending his time actually trying to fix the problems that'd be great and everybody would be applauding him (and I'm sure more people would keep buying his god damn book). This attitude however, dismissing the criticism he's getting as "whatever, it's because of the Previous Generation", is fucking pathetic. But hey, he stopped reading HN and proggit. Good for him, avoiding the big bad filter bubble. I'm sure only surrounding yourself with people who think Py3 is the work of the devil, and dismissing any and all criticism of your Word of God as "angry lonely coders" is a healthy, balanced approached to information ingestion.

wmil 10y ago
> If he were spending his time actually trying to fix the problems Let's assume he doesn't have the time or energy to dive into the Python 3 source and then learn the rules for contributions. Then all he can do is list the problems he has with Python 3. Which he has done. It seems like the Python 3 community is too defensive. Bad string error message seem to be a longstanding grip. They should focus on improving that instead of complaining about Zed's opinions.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  Nonsense. There's plenty he could do other than "list problems". There's in fact a ton more that hundreds, even thousands have done than him for Python 3 specifically and Python in general. He, of all people, would be able to help a huge amount if he put his mind to it. But I'm not here to tell him what to do. My problem is that his attitude is actively harmful to the python community. It's creating divisiveness where there isn't any. Take a look at most libraries: they're 2+3 compatible. Very few are 3-only, because the Python community at large understands how widespread 2 is for existing users, and how useful 3 is for new users. No shit the community's defensive, he's literally painting a large part of it as "angry lonely coders" and "abusive previous generation". No shit they complain about Zed's opinions, a lot of developers learned Python with his book. I'm a child of Dive Into Python, but I can attest that you feel emotionally attached to what taught you the language you love. His attitude is the problem. As for "improving Python 3", I don't know if you noticed but there's been 5 major releases of 3.x since the initial one, with a 6th one approaching. Each and every one of them has improved backwards compatibility and the python 3 rough edges.
  - patates 10y ago
    There may probably be a lot of things he could do to help Python but why is listing problems any less useful? He says he gave it a try many times, too, so it's not just blind criticism. I don't like how he disregards the opinions of communities and how he validates his, but that doesn't mean he totally wrong about the problems of Python 3.
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      Because nearly none of the problems he listed are real problems. Please read through this: https://eev.ee/blog/2016/11/23/a-rebuttal-for-python-3/ https://eev.ee/blog/2016/11/23/a-rebuttal-for-python-3/

wmil 10y ago

> If he were spending his time actually trying to fix the problems Let's assume he doesn't have the time or energy to dive into the Python 3 source and then learn the rules for contributions. Then all he can do is list the problems he has with Python 3. Which he has done. It seems like the Python 3 community is too defensive. Bad string error message seem to be a longstanding grip. They should focus on improving that instead of complaining about Zed's opinions.

scrollaway 10y ago
Nonsense. There's plenty he could do other than "list problems". There's in fact a ton more that hundreds, even thousands have done than him for Python 3 specifically and Python in general. He, of all people, would be able to help a huge amount if he put his mind to it. But I'm not here to tell him what to do. My problem is that his attitude is actively harmful to the python community. It's creating divisiveness where there isn't any. Take a look at most libraries: they're 2+3 compatible. Very few are 3-only, because the Python community at large understands how widespread 2 is for existing users, and how useful 3 is for new users. No shit the community's defensive, he's literally painting a large part of it as "angry lonely coders" and "abusive previous generation". No shit they complain about Zed's opinions, a lot of developers learned Python with his book. I'm a child of Dive Into Python, but I can attest that you feel emotionally attached to what taught you the language you love. His attitude is the problem. As for "improving Python 3", I don't know if you noticed but there's been 5 major releases of 3.x since the initial one, with a 6th one approaching. Each and every one of them has improved backwards compatibility and the python 3 rough edges.
- patates 10y ago
  There may probably be a lot of things he could do to help Python but why is listing problems any less useful? He says he gave it a try many times, too, so it's not just blind criticism. I don't like how he disregards the opinions of communities and how he validates his, but that doesn't mean he totally wrong about the problems of Python 3.
  - scrollaway 10y ago
    Because nearly none of the problems he listed are real problems. Please read through this: https://eev.ee/blog/2016/11/23/a-rebuttal-for-python-3/ https://eev.ee/blog/2016/11/23/a-rebuttal-for-python-3/