7 ms·

I love Airbnb when it was small and largely just people who wanted to share a spare bedroom. Now, it's just as commercial as any other listing website. In Toro

by colmvp 10y ago

I love Airbnb when it was small and largely just people who wanted to share a spare bedroom. Now, it's just as commercial as any other listing website. In Toronto, it's not uncommon to see tons of lockboxes outside some condos which are largely for short term rentals, as well as have tenants deal with experiences like this (copy and pasted from Toronto's subreddit): "Have you ever wanted to live in a hotel, without the actual service of living in a hotel? You can at the Ice Condos! When walking through the lobby on any given day you're nearly guaranteed to see a few wide eyed, suitcase towing AirBNB guests standing around. Don't except to be able to speak with the concierge for anything - the AirBNB people will be arguing with them over the fact that the concierge won't just give out the keys to suites because people say they're supposed to be allowed in. Shout out to the guy last week who yelled 'This isn't a fuckking hotel!' to the woman doing just that last week." It's particularly why I find their branding and messaging deceitful. They advertise in Toronto in a way that makes it seem like the company is merely a benign platform that helps citizens fund things on the side (one of their ads uses an Asian family with a kid, an appeal to emotion which I see through as an Asian Canadian). Except it's disconnected from a reality where people buy properties for the sole purpose of listing them on Airbnb as short-term rentals.

woofyman 10y ago
Why doesn't the home owners association crack down on the short term rentals?
- run4yourlives2 10y ago
  Short answer: One of two scenarios... 1. Because the Strata (HOA in Canada) has no idea this is even an option. 2. Because most of them are in favour of it, (most likely). A big issue with a lot of condos in major cities (particularly new construction) is that upwards of 50% of them (sometimes, even higher) are owned by investors not actually living in the building. It's only on site owners that care about the actual goings on of the space. Everyone else is just looking to make a buck.
  - woofyman 10y ago
    The building manager of my condo gave owners of Airbnb listed units 2 weeks to remove the listings or face fines.
    - run4yourlives2 10y ago
      The building manager is employed by the Strata, so in your case either the Strata bylaw already existed, or the Strata Council acted without explicit authorization. (Which they may have after seeing this issue regarding zoning.) This is why AGM's, Strata bylaws and Strata Council meeting minutes are important to read, not just throw into recycling.
  - chx 10y ago
    Our building always had a short term ban, last year we added a specific anti-Airbnb clarification to it. Also, while normal bylaw violation is a $200 fine, rental violations are $500 fine and if I recall correctly, strata can fine you every week for that amount. As crazy Vancouver is, it still could be worth it but I also believe that a repeated infraction even if you pay the fines can lead to a lawsuit.
- mistermann 10y ago
  Possibly for the same reason even the Canada Revenue Agency won't do it's job, fear of racism: http://www.richmond-news.com/news/cra-ups-its-game-targeting-property-cheats-in-new-campaign-1.2303255 http://www.richmond-news.com/news/cra-ups-its-game-targeting...
- aquadrop 10y ago
  Maybe it's unpopular opinion here, but why short term rentals are bad? I personally love short term rentals, hotels suck compare to them. I hopped over asia and europe with 4-10 days at one place at a time, using AirBnB and it was great. I want home-like experience when I travel, I don't want to stay in overpriced micro-rooms without kitchen where I can't even make a tea. Some people mentioned that condo inhabitants 'don't like living in a hotel', but what specifically is the problem? That many people are going in and out? I don't really know if it's the problem itself if those are decent people. And still most of the people would be full time If there are related issues, maybe it's best to address the issues (I don't know what they are though, nobody explained it)? Because AirBnb looks like a good platform to manage those issues, turn chaotic market into more sane and organized. I think best strategy would be for AirBnb and building-owners to work together, to keep asshollish visitors outside (they are the problem, not short term rentals itself), put more incentive for rent-givers to watch over who they rent appartment/house to, etc P.S. I never was on another side of the fence (i.e. living in the building with many short term rental visitors), so maybe I don't understand/underestimate something.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    Short term (especially weekend) tenants don't care about the neighbours or the building. They'll have noisy parties, not know where the bins are and leave rubbish in the hallways, and clatter their suitcase up or down the stairs at 4:30 to take a cheap flight home. > I think best strategy would be for AirBnb and building-owners to work together I'd like to see a way for building owners, or local government, to get a feed of every listing on AirBnB. They can then terminate leases, or whatever.
    - aquadrop 10y ago
      > Short term (especially weekend) tenants don't care about the neighbours or the building. So probably the smaller period the higher rating/experience of the tenant. And of course fines for landlords. > I'd like to see a way for building owners, or local government, to get a feed of every listing on AirBnB. They can then terminate leases, or whatever. You propose AirBnB give out gun to shot AirBnB :) That's not what I meant, more like notifications who rented what, so building owners could report/fine right landlord later.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  The company that manages the building I live in, in Copenhagen, dealt very quickly when I reported an apartment on AirBnB. I don't know what they did, but the regular noise at weekends didn't return. Everyone who doesn't sublet their apartment year round should be against AirBnB in their building. It can only push the rent up.
richthegeek 10y ago
It's a similar problem in Europe, at least in some cities. My experiences, and anecdotes from friends: Budapest: Prices are pretty good compared to hotels at all times. There are a few "professional" hosts but most are just letting out some spare capacity. Occasional bait-and-switch. Copenhagen: Prices are equal with hotels, so it's really a lifestyle choice. Generally convivial hosts. London: almost entirely professional, but the prices usually beat a hotel room by a large margin. Barcelona: absolutely ruined. Completely professional, prices as high as hotels, and literally every room/flat in the city center has a Strict refund policy (i.e. lose half your money). Many instances of bait-and-switch (show you a nice flat, not available, take a look at this s*hole instead) and trying to screw you into cancelling (and keeping your money). Also had more than one friend have "break-ins" on the last day (often too late to sort with the police before your flight home). AirBnB really need to crack down on professional hosts. Start with disallowing more than ~3 listings per host, and really punish bait-and-switch attempts.
- cmurf 10y ago
  Based on the stories I've heard from friends and colleagues about this in Barcelona, AirBnB is engaging in fraud. They should sooner pull out entirely that defile their customers in this manner - but then the real customer is apparently the landlord, not the renter, so I guess they are helping their customer defile the peasants. All of the stories involved AirBnB blaming the renter for not informing them immediately upon being redirected to a different apartment, while simultaneously being essentially impossible to get ahold of in a timely manner, you know after a 12 hour international flight and you've arrived at midnight. Getting a cot at this point has a very good chance of being accepted and AirBnB takes the side of the landlord that this is tacit acceptance of the entire bait and switch being valid.
omouse 10y ago
That's the growth mindset for you. Airbnb would be better if it were not profit-driven imo.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  That's what couchsurfing.org used to be, and then they got into the game trying to compete against AirBnB.
- Tempest1981 10y ago
  Or maybe they could settle for 25% less profit, and work to maintain good will in the community. In the end, the lack of good will may cost them more. Or maybe they've already calculated this?
edblarney 10y ago
I don't think that 'professional listings' are negative and I don't think there is misrepresentation. I fact - I have absolutely no will or wanton to go and stay in someone's room, or even in a personal flat - I don't want to use someone else's stuff. I actually much prefer a professionally managed space that just happens to not be a hotel. As far as how it affects local markets - that's another question entirely. It's probably a good idea that those markets decide for themselves how it should be regulated.

by colmvp 10y ago

woofyman 10y ago

Why doesn't the home owners association crack down on the short term rentals?

run4yourlives2 10y ago
Short answer: One of two scenarios... 1. Because the Strata (HOA in Canada) has no idea this is even an option. 2. Because most of them are in favour of it, (most likely). A big issue with a lot of condos in major cities (particularly new construction) is that upwards of 50% of them (sometimes, even higher) are owned by investors not actually living in the building. It's only on site owners that care about the actual goings on of the space. Everyone else is just looking to make a buck.
- woofyman 10y ago
  The building manager of my condo gave owners of Airbnb listed units 2 weeks to remove the listings or face fines.
  - run4yourlives2 10y ago
    The building manager is employed by the Strata, so in your case either the Strata bylaw already existed, or the Strata Council acted without explicit authorization. (Which they may have after seeing this issue regarding zoning.) This is why AGM's, Strata bylaws and Strata Council meeting minutes are important to read, not just throw into recycling.
- chx 10y ago
  Our building always had a short term ban, last year we added a specific anti-Airbnb clarification to it. Also, while normal bylaw violation is a $200 fine, rental violations are $500 fine and if I recall correctly, strata can fine you every week for that amount. As crazy Vancouver is, it still could be worth it but I also believe that a repeated infraction even if you pay the fines can lead to a lawsuit.
mistermann 10y ago
Possibly for the same reason even the Canada Revenue Agency won't do it's job, fear of racism: http://www.richmond-news.com/news/cra-ups-its-game-targeting-property-cheats-in-new-campaign-1.2303255 http://www.richmond-news.com/news/cra-ups-its-game-targeting...
aquadrop 10y ago
Maybe it's unpopular opinion here, but why short term rentals are bad? I personally love short term rentals, hotels suck compare to them. I hopped over asia and europe with 4-10 days at one place at a time, using AirBnB and it was great. I want home-like experience when I travel, I don't want to stay in overpriced micro-rooms without kitchen where I can't even make a tea. Some people mentioned that condo inhabitants 'don't like living in a hotel', but what specifically is the problem? That many people are going in and out? I don't really know if it's the problem itself if those are decent people. And still most of the people would be full time If there are related issues, maybe it's best to address the issues (I don't know what they are though, nobody explained it)? Because AirBnb looks like a good platform to manage those issues, turn chaotic market into more sane and organized. I think best strategy would be for AirBnb and building-owners to work together, to keep asshollish visitors outside (they are the problem, not short term rentals itself), put more incentive for rent-givers to watch over who they rent appartment/house to, etc P.S. I never was on another side of the fence (i.e. living in the building with many short term rental visitors), so maybe I don't understand/underestimate something.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  Short term (especially weekend) tenants don't care about the neighbours or the building. They'll have noisy parties, not know where the bins are and leave rubbish in the hallways, and clatter their suitcase up or down the stairs at 4:30 to take a cheap flight home. > I think best strategy would be for AirBnb and building-owners to work together I'd like to see a way for building owners, or local government, to get a feed of every listing on AirBnB. They can then terminate leases, or whatever.
  - aquadrop 10y ago
    > Short term (especially weekend) tenants don't care about the neighbours or the building. So probably the smaller period the higher rating/experience of the tenant. And of course fines for landlords. > I'd like to see a way for building owners, or local government, to get a feed of every listing on AirBnB. They can then terminate leases, or whatever. You propose AirBnB give out gun to shot AirBnB :) That's not what I meant, more like notifications who rented what, so building owners could report/fine right landlord later.
Symbiote 10y ago
The company that manages the building I live in, in Copenhagen, dealt very quickly when I reported an apartment on AirBnB. I don't know what they did, but the regular noise at weekends didn't return. Everyone who doesn't sublet their apartment year round should be against AirBnB in their building. It can only push the rent up.

richthegeek 10y ago

It's a similar problem in Europe, at least in some cities. My experiences, and anecdotes from friends: Budapest: Prices are pretty good compared to hotels at all times. There are a few "professional" hosts but most are just letting out some spare capacity. Occasional bait-and-switch. Copenhagen: Prices are equal with hotels, so it's really a lifestyle choice. Generally convivial hosts. London: almost entirely professional, but the prices usually beat a hotel room by a large margin. Barcelona: absolutely ruined. Completely professional, prices as high as hotels, and literally every room/flat in the city center has a Strict refund policy (i.e. lose half your money). Many instances of bait-and-switch (show you a nice flat, not available, take a look at this s*hole instead) and trying to screw you into cancelling (and keeping your money). Also had more than one friend have "break-ins" on the last day (often too late to sort with the police before your flight home). AirBnB really need to crack down on professional hosts. Start with disallowing more than ~3 listings per host, and really punish bait-and-switch attempts.

cmurf 10y ago
Based on the stories I've heard from friends and colleagues about this in Barcelona, AirBnB is engaging in fraud. They should sooner pull out entirely that defile their customers in this manner - but then the real customer is apparently the landlord, not the renter, so I guess they are helping their customer defile the peasants. All of the stories involved AirBnB blaming the renter for not informing them immediately upon being redirected to a different apartment, while simultaneously being essentially impossible to get ahold of in a timely manner, you know after a 12 hour international flight and you've arrived at midnight. Getting a cot at this point has a very good chance of being accepted and AirBnB takes the side of the landlord that this is tacit acceptance of the entire bait and switch being valid.

omouse 10y ago

That's the growth mindset for you. Airbnb would be better if it were not profit-driven imo.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
That's what couchsurfing.org used to be, and then they got into the game trying to compete against AirBnB.
Tempest1981 10y ago
Or maybe they could settle for 25% less profit, and work to maintain good will in the community. In the end, the lack of good will may cost them more. Or maybe they've already calculated this?

edblarney 10y ago

I don't think that 'professional listings' are negative and I don't think there is misrepresentation. I fact - I have absolutely no will or wanton to go and stay in someone's room, or even in a personal flat - I don't want to use someone else's stuff. I actually much prefer a professionally managed space that just happens to not be a hotel. As far as how it affects local markets - that's another question entirely. It's probably a good idea that those markets decide for themselves how it should be regulated.