3 ms·

> Great news! Why is this great news? Am I missing something or are you simply against short term rentals in general?

by josho 10y ago

enraged_camel 10y ago
Not the OP, but AirBnB has been turning into Uber lately with the way they are strongly lobbying (and filing lawsuits) against consumer/resident protection laws. It's the type of behavior that's guaranteed to erode the public's goodwill.
meddlepal 10y ago
I'm strongly opposed to short term rentals because it's just giving rise to alt-hotel property management landlords that reduce housing supply. I'm sort of OK with it on an ad-hoc this is my primary residence and I have a spare bedroom.
- josho 10y ago
  I've only used the service for vacation homes (think cottages/cabins away from urban centres that would otherwise be vacant by the owner). Never really thought about the consequence for adding to house pricing pressures and rental vacancy rates. Thanks.
  - s0rce 10y ago
    Look at the SF bay area there are possibly more properties vacant on Airbnb then for rent Craigslist or Zillow.
- mahyarm 10y ago
  What are the numbers? Toronto has ~6000 fulltime units. http://insideairbnb.com/toronto/ http://insideairbnb.com/toronto/ How many new 20 story condo buildings is that? 20? In sf the numbers are about ~5000 units. But other data sources show there are about 30k vacant units and 10k are not for rent because potential landlords think the rental laws are too crazy and rather leave them empty. Not to mention all the potential missing units that SF doesnt build due to strong NIMBYism. How strong is the NIMBY in toronto?
  - sanswork 10y ago
    Toronto has lots of units the problem isn't supply so much as people don't want to live in hotels. NIMBYism is fine when youre fighting against private individuals exploiting your home for profit. It's not like AirBNB is an issue of it has to exist just not here.
  - NiMBYLord 10y ago
    NIMBYISM is incredibly strong in Toronto, but missing units are not caused by NIMBYISM and NIMBYISM has very limited ability to do influence property development in ontario because if the city does something to stop development, the developer can take the city to a development court. The problem in Canada is that we have this investor class of buyers, and developers depend on their early entry to capitalize their projects. These investors are individuals who usually seek to put their money, or rather their ability to borrow at very low rates, somewhere that has a higher ROI then stocks or bonds or traditional investments.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > I'm strongly opposed to short term rentals because it's just giving rise to alt-hotel property management landlords that reduce housing supply. I'm sort of OK with it on an ad-hoc this is my primary residence and I have a spare bedroom. I'm opposed to long term rental. Wait no. I'm not actually "opposed" to it. I just think of it as a major failure and a big obstacle in modern times. Who the hell think it is acceptable to be forced into an unbreakable lease for 1-3 years and pay 1 months of agency fee + 2 months of guarantee in advance? I'm not even sure I could keep a job for an entire year. (and I'm not talking of a programmer in SV who got a better offer but of normal people who just can't get a permanent job in this era). If you want to stay somewhere for 1-3 week, an hotel will do. If you want to stay 1-3 years, a "normal" flat will do. AirBnB fills the gap between. Not to mention that it also fills the gap for people who cannot give all the bullshit paperwork of normal flats. Just pay and done, AirBnb does not reject a host for [the same] bullshit reasons [as agencies]. (I don't know how it is in the USA but in France it's a nightmare to get a flat).
  - untog 10y ago
    That's a fascinating perspective that is entirely at odds with my perception. > Who the hell think it is acceptable to be forced into an unbreakable lease for 1-3 years Who the hell would want to live under threat of eviction every few months? When I sign a lease (there isn't really such a thing as an unbreakable lease, you just lose your security deposit) I know that I have a guaranteed place to live for the next year or two. I would not want to live without that guarantee.
    - ohwello 10y ago
      Hey, isn't it nice that annual and monthly leases both exist, so you are the parent commenter's strongly held preferences are both met? This has been my experience in the US anyway.
      - user5994461 10y ago
        Well, I'm not in the US, there are no monthly lease here. You really don't want to tell a landlord that you're unsure whether you'll be able to stay for year(s). I remember when I was a student. There were "student accommodations" that had sort of special terms. People usually stayed there for 3-6-12 months to fit with the university/internship/apprenticeship cycle. That was quite nice. I'm sad that can't have that as an adult. > I know that I have a guaranteed place to live for the next year or two. [I would not want to live without that guarantee]. I know that I have no guarantee to still have that job [or find another in the area] for a year or two. Thus I have no guarantee that I can stay in this place for the next year or two. I would like to live with the guarantee of having a job, and a revenue, and a place to stay, and a girlfriend, and many other things... The world doesn't care about what I'd like.

> Great news! Why is this great news? Am I missing something or are you simply against short term rentals in general?

by josho 10y ago

> Great news! Why is this great news? Am I missing something or are you simply against short term rentals in general?

Not the OP, but AirBnB has been turning into Uber lately with the way they are strongly lobbying (and filing lawsuits) against consumer/resident protection laws. It's the type of behavior that's guaranteed to erode the public's goodwill.

meddlepal 10y ago

I'm strongly opposed to short term rentals because it's just giving rise to alt-hotel property management landlords that reduce housing supply. I'm sort of OK with it on an ad-hoc this is my primary residence and I have a spare bedroom.

josho 10y ago
I've only used the service for vacation homes (think cottages/cabins away from urban centres that would otherwise be vacant by the owner). Never really thought about the consequence for adding to house pricing pressures and rental vacancy rates. Thanks.
- s0rce 10y ago
  Look at the SF bay area there are possibly more properties vacant on Airbnb then for rent Craigslist or Zillow.
mahyarm 10y ago
What are the numbers? Toronto has ~6000 fulltime units. http://insideairbnb.com/toronto/ http://insideairbnb.com/toronto/ How many new 20 story condo buildings is that? 20? In sf the numbers are about ~5000 units. But other data sources show there are about 30k vacant units and 10k are not for rent because potential landlords think the rental laws are too crazy and rather leave them empty. Not to mention all the potential missing units that SF doesnt build due to strong NIMBYism. How strong is the NIMBY in toronto?
- sanswork 10y ago
  Toronto has lots of units the problem isn't supply so much as people don't want to live in hotels. NIMBYism is fine when youre fighting against private individuals exploiting your home for profit. It's not like AirBNB is an issue of it has to exist just not here.
- NiMBYLord 10y ago
  NIMBYISM is incredibly strong in Toronto, but missing units are not caused by NIMBYISM and NIMBYISM has very limited ability to do influence property development in ontario because if the city does something to stop development, the developer can take the city to a development court. The problem in Canada is that we have this investor class of buyers, and developers depend on their early entry to capitalize their projects. These investors are individuals who usually seek to put their money, or rather their ability to borrow at very low rates, somewhere that has a higher ROI then stocks or bonds or traditional investments.
user5994461 10y ago
> I'm strongly opposed to short term rentals because it's just giving rise to alt-hotel property management landlords that reduce housing supply. I'm sort of OK with it on an ad-hoc this is my primary residence and I have a spare bedroom. I'm opposed to long term rental. Wait no. I'm not actually "opposed" to it. I just think of it as a major failure and a big obstacle in modern times. Who the hell think it is acceptable to be forced into an unbreakable lease for 1-3 years and pay 1 months of agency fee + 2 months of guarantee in advance? I'm not even sure I could keep a job for an entire year. (and I'm not talking of a programmer in SV who got a better offer but of normal people who just can't get a permanent job in this era). If you want to stay somewhere for 1-3 week, an hotel will do. If you want to stay 1-3 years, a "normal" flat will do. AirBnB fills the gap between. Not to mention that it also fills the gap for people who cannot give all the bullshit paperwork of normal flats. Just pay and done, AirBnb does not reject a host for [the same] bullshit reasons [as agencies]. (I don't know how it is in the USA but in France it's a nightmare to get a flat).
- untog 10y ago
  That's a fascinating perspective that is entirely at odds with my perception. > Who the hell think it is acceptable to be forced into an unbreakable lease for 1-3 years Who the hell would want to live under threat of eviction every few months? When I sign a lease (there isn't really such a thing as an unbreakable lease, you just lose your security deposit) I know that I have a guaranteed place to live for the next year or two. I would not want to live without that guarantee.
  - ohwello 10y ago
    Hey, isn't it nice that annual and monthly leases both exist, so you are the parent commenter's strongly held preferences are both met? This has been my experience in the US anyway.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      Well, I'm not in the US, there are no monthly lease here. You really don't want to tell a landlord that you're unsure whether you'll be able to stay for year(s). I remember when I was a student. There were "student accommodations" that had sort of special terms. People usually stayed there for 3-6-12 months to fit with the university/internship/apprenticeship cycle. That was quite nice. I'm sad that can't have that as an adult. > I know that I have a guaranteed place to live for the next year or two. [I would not want to live without that guarantee]. I know that I have no guarantee to still have that job [or find another in the area] for a year or two. Thus I have no guarantee that I can stay in this place for the next year or two. I would like to live with the guarantee of having a job, and a revenue, and a place to stay, and a girlfriend, and many other things... The world doesn't care about what I'd like.