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Why will ArangoDB succeed where RethinkDB failed commercially? Can't see any mention of changefeeds on the Arango website, which is the killer Rethink feature f

Why will ArangoDB succeed where RethinkDB failed commercially? Can't see any mention of changefeeds on the Arango website, which is the killer Rethink feature for me.

roflc0ptic 10y ago
ArangoDB is a multi model store, which is to say it lets you store key value pairs, json documents, and graphs. (Edges are just another document with two special fields: "_from" and "_to". My team just spent 3 weeks investigating document stores and ultimately settled on arangoDB because: 1. Graph functionality, 2. Read after write consistency, 3. Partial updates, 4. Efficient joins across shards, 5. The (limited) text search features, 6. AQL is just pretty sweet. There was a whole spreadsheet matrix but that's what I can remember without pulling it up. We really liked RethinkDB for its change feeds. We are probably going to use Elastic for search, because we want to expose Lucene to our users, so we'll probably have to write some foxx endpoints to manage the data replication. I like the idea of foxx but really hate that it's JavaScript based. I'm planning on looking into using ScalaJS if possible.
- pluma 10y ago
  Hi, I'm Alan from the ArangoDB JavaScript team. It should be possible to use ScalaJS with Foxx as long as it is transpiled in advance and produces node-compatible modules (i.e. something that can be consumed by and can consume other node modules using `require`). I've heard of other people successfully using Babel, TypeScript and even ClojureScript with Foxx.
  - roflc0ptic 10y ago
    Aw yeah! While I have you - has any progress been made on a correct write ahead log APIacross shards? I saw a post from mid 2015 about it, but didn't see anything after. Would really like to be able to write an elastic river-type tool for search.
    - pluma 10y ago
      I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you can point me in the direction of the article you mentioned, maybe one of the developers who are more intimately familiar with the cluster internals can take a stab at it?
      - roflc0ptic 10y ago
        Haha that's fair. I was being a little lazy because I'm writing this from a kayak on Rainbow River. This is the thread where I got my rather limited info. :) https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/arangodb/ModsM74K1zA https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/arangodb/ModsM74K1... If it makes sense to take off thread, my email is daniel.porter@pwc.com. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!
        pluma 10y ago
        The question makes more sense in context, but I'm not familiar enough with the WAL to be able to answer myself. When you're back on dry land, maybe you can join us in the Community Slack: https://slack.arangodb.com https://slack.arangodb.com We have a dedicated #cluster channel were you will probably have better luck getting detailed answers to technical questions. :)
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
pier25 10y ago
I have not used Arango in production although I evaluated it and exchanged a few emails with Claudius. I see a number of reasons why ArangoDB might be more interesting than Rethink: 1) Arango is a multi model database with graph, noSQL, and key-value pairs. Even if Rethink has joins and complex queries, it will never be as flexible for general data modelling. 2) Foxx is a logical layer on top of the database. While it's limited compared to a classic server side application it offers way more flexibility than Rethink could ever. 3) Arango (or Foxx) don't offer realtime data like Rethink or Firebase, but quite frankly there are few cases where such feature is needed. On our project we are probably going to use DreamFactory instead of Arango because we are more comfortable with SQL dbs and it has a number of other valuable features over Arango.
- philippnagel 10y ago
  Thanks! Are there any other noteworthy realtime DBs like Rethink and Firebase?
  - pier25 10y ago
    OrientDB has a similar feature called "live query". Meteor also has something called "reactive data sources" although Meteor is not really a DB.
  - marknadal 10y ago
    ArangoDB team is awesome, personally interacted with them a couple times. As far as realtime and multi-model (graph) I work on https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun , which is also distributed and offline-first.
  - doublerebel 10y ago
    CouchDB's changes feed predates Rethink, I'm not sure why it largely gets ignored. Couch is rock solid. For graph DBs, I've found nothing easier to setup and more efficient than Arango. The team there is very receptive and determined too. I'd love it if Arango had a changes feed, but realistically it's really easy to just pipe the data into a stream from whereever gets confirmed writes to the database. This is how I've always done it outside of Couch/Rethink. It helps decouple the stream from the db concept in case more data sources or sinks are added later (very common in my experience).

Why will ArangoDB succeed where RethinkDB failed commercially? Can't see any mention of changefeeds on the Arango website, which is the killer Rethink feature for me.

roflc0ptic 10y ago

ArangoDB is a multi model store, which is to say it lets you store key value pairs, json documents, and graphs. (Edges are just another document with two special fields: "_from" and "_to". My team just spent 3 weeks investigating document stores and ultimately settled on arangoDB because: 1. Graph functionality, 2. Read after write consistency, 3. Partial updates, 4. Efficient joins across shards, 5. The (limited) text search features, 6. AQL is just pretty sweet. There was a whole spreadsheet matrix but that's what I can remember without pulling it up. We really liked RethinkDB for its change feeds. We are probably going to use Elastic for search, because we want to expose Lucene to our users, so we'll probably have to write some foxx endpoints to manage the data replication. I like the idea of foxx but really hate that it's JavaScript based. I'm planning on looking into using ScalaJS if possible.

pluma 10y ago
Hi, I'm Alan from the ArangoDB JavaScript team. It should be possible to use ScalaJS with Foxx as long as it is transpiled in advance and produces node-compatible modules (i.e. something that can be consumed by and can consume other node modules using `require`). I've heard of other people successfully using Babel, TypeScript and even ClojureScript with Foxx.
- roflc0ptic 10y ago
  Aw yeah! While I have you - has any progress been made on a correct write ahead log APIacross shards? I saw a post from mid 2015 about it, but didn't see anything after. Would really like to be able to write an elastic river-type tool for search.
  - pluma 10y ago
    I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you can point me in the direction of the article you mentioned, maybe one of the developers who are more intimately familiar with the cluster internals can take a stab at it?
    - roflc0ptic 10y ago
      Haha that's fair. I was being a little lazy because I'm writing this from a kayak on Rainbow River. This is the thread where I got my rather limited info. :) https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/arangodb/ModsM74K1zA https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/arangodb/ModsM74K1... If it makes sense to take off thread, my email is daniel.porter@pwc.com. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!
      - pluma 10y ago
        The question makes more sense in context, but I'm not familiar enough with the WAL to be able to answer myself. When you're back on dry land, maybe you can join us in the Community Slack: https://slack.arangodb.com https://slack.arangodb.com We have a dedicated #cluster channel were you will probably have better luck getting detailed answers to technical questions. :)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

pier25 10y ago

I have not used Arango in production although I evaluated it and exchanged a few emails with Claudius. I see a number of reasons why ArangoDB might be more interesting than Rethink: 1) Arango is a multi model database with graph, noSQL, and key-value pairs. Even if Rethink has joins and complex queries, it will never be as flexible for general data modelling. 2) Foxx is a logical layer on top of the database. While it's limited compared to a classic server side application it offers way more flexibility than Rethink could ever. 3) Arango (or Foxx) don't offer realtime data like Rethink or Firebase, but quite frankly there are few cases where such feature is needed. On our project we are probably going to use DreamFactory instead of Arango because we are more comfortable with SQL dbs and it has a number of other valuable features over Arango.

philippnagel 10y ago
Thanks! Are there any other noteworthy realtime DBs like Rethink and Firebase?
- pier25 10y ago
  OrientDB has a similar feature called "live query". Meteor also has something called "reactive data sources" although Meteor is not really a DB.
- marknadal 10y ago
  ArangoDB team is awesome, personally interacted with them a couple times. As far as realtime and multi-model (graph) I work on https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun , which is also distributed and offline-first.
- doublerebel 10y ago
  CouchDB's changes feed predates Rethink, I'm not sure why it largely gets ignored. Couch is rock solid. For graph DBs, I've found nothing easier to setup and more efficient than Arango. The team there is very receptive and determined too. I'd love it if Arango had a changes feed, but realistically it's really easy to just pipe the data into a stream from whereever gets confirmed writes to the database. This is how I've always done it outside of Couch/Rethink. It helps decouple the stream from the db concept in case more data sources or sinks are added later (very common in my experience).