4 ms·

Voting record? Nope (At least not in the UK. I've heard it's the same for the US, too). You can only get who they say they voted for. Anything else is a gross b

by fao_ 10y ago

Voting record? Nope (At least not in the UK. I've heard it's the same for the US, too). You can only get who they say they voted for. Anything else is a gross breach of several data protection laws. Party affiliation could be faked in some way, but isn't an absolute thing any way. I could easily see ~alt-right~ fascist journalists donating $1 to many different left-wing parties to get a record of affiliation, and then undoing those donations by writing opinionated articles against those parties.

throwanem 10y ago
Party affiliation is a matter of public record in the US, as are the dates and amounts of donations to political campaigns and action committees. I haven't heard of any case in which anyone claiming affiliation with the "alt-right" has used any of this information in order to attack anyone. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said on all sides; Brendan Eich's politically motivated ouster from Mozilla, for example, tends to crop up fairly regularly in discussions of such matters, as a good example of the sort of behavior considered entirely apropos and indeed quite virtuous among progressive biens-pensants.
- fao_ 10y ago
  I didn't say that party affiliation isn't a matter of public record, I said that voting record isn't =/ I wouldn't label them as right wing ('biens-pensants'), but as post-left[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy
  - throwanem 10y ago
    You talked about faking party affiliation, though, so the point seemed relevant. If I read you correctly, you're describing the alt-right as post-left anarchists. I think many who favor the label might quibble somewhat with that analysis. At the very least, I'd be interested to see some elaboration on it.
    - fao_ 10y ago
      The a̶l̶t̶-̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ fascist-right (This conversion is well supported by comparing the two ideologies) generally support figures like Brendan Eich, because he shares their viewpoints. He has a history of financing right-wing parties. After some more research, I was incorrect with the label 'post-left', however you were extremely incorrect about the label 'a̶l̶t̶-̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ fascist-right'. The push to get Brendan Eich out of Mozilla was not done by people who use the a̶l̶t̶-̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ fascist-right label, but rather by people in the LGBT sub-community of left-wing (At least, as I understand it that was their overlap). i.e. people who think that it was inappropriate for him to fund anti-progressive legislation with money acquired from the open source movement.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        I can see that you feel strongly about the equation of "alt-right" with "fascist", but beyond that I'm having some trouble grasping the point you're trying to make. Are you taking me to mean "right-wing" by bien-pensant? The term refers to orthodoxy of thought, not to any specific political tendency.
        fao_ 10y ago
        > I can see that you feel strongly about the equation of "alt-right" with "fascist", It is not that I feel strongly about it, it is that the 'alternative right' ideology is close enough to various fascist ideologies to make the difference almost none. The effort to get them known as 'alt-right' is political effort to try and legitimise their various causes. I think that the philosophies are so old, and have been fought again, and again, and again by people who persue freedom[0] enough to make the whole argument ridiculously obsolete. I was taking you to mean 'right-wing' by 'bien-pensant', because I was not aware of the nuance in meaning. [0]: Yes, I am aware of the various disparities in meaning of the word 'freedom'. In this sense I mean that isolating the rights of people based on various characteristics of them (Say, their religion, sexuality, etc.) is very, very wrong -- and the people who support this are against the very tenets of personal freedom.
Spooky23 10y ago
> I could easily see ~alt-right~ fascist journalists donating $1 to many different left-wing parties to get a record of affiliation Why? Anyone who cares enough to verify that will quickly see through it.

by fao_ 10y ago

throwanem 10y ago

Party affiliation is a matter of public record in the US, as are the dates and amounts of donations to political campaigns and action committees. I haven't heard of any case in which anyone claiming affiliation with the "alt-right" has used any of this information in order to attack anyone. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said on all sides; Brendan Eich's politically motivated ouster from Mozilla, for example, tends to crop up fairly regularly in discussions of such matters, as a good example of the sort of behavior considered entirely apropos and indeed quite virtuous among progressive biens-pensants.

fao_ 10y ago
I didn't say that party affiliation isn't a matter of public record, I said that voting record isn't =/ I wouldn't label them as right wing ('biens-pensants'), but as post-left[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy
- throwanem 10y ago
  You talked about faking party affiliation, though, so the point seemed relevant. If I read you correctly, you're describing the alt-right as post-left anarchists. I think many who favor the label might quibble somewhat with that analysis. At the very least, I'd be interested to see some elaboration on it.
  - fao_ 10y ago
    The a̶l̶t̶-̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ fascist-right (This conversion is well supported by comparing the two ideologies) generally support figures like Brendan Eich, because he shares their viewpoints. He has a history of financing right-wing parties. After some more research, I was incorrect with the label 'post-left', however you were extremely incorrect about the label 'a̶l̶t̶-̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ fascist-right'. The push to get Brendan Eich out of Mozilla was not done by people who use the a̶l̶t̶-̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ fascist-right label, but rather by people in the LGBT sub-community of left-wing (At least, as I understand it that was their overlap). i.e. people who think that it was inappropriate for him to fund anti-progressive legislation with money acquired from the open source movement.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      I can see that you feel strongly about the equation of "alt-right" with "fascist", but beyond that I'm having some trouble grasping the point you're trying to make. Are you taking me to mean "right-wing" by bien-pensant? The term refers to orthodoxy of thought, not to any specific political tendency.
      - fao_ 10y ago
        > I can see that you feel strongly about the equation of "alt-right" with "fascist", It is not that I feel strongly about it, it is that the 'alternative right' ideology is close enough to various fascist ideologies to make the difference almost none. The effort to get them known as 'alt-right' is political effort to try and legitimise their various causes. I think that the philosophies are so old, and have been fought again, and again, and again by people who persue freedom[0] enough to make the whole argument ridiculously obsolete. I was taking you to mean 'right-wing' by 'bien-pensant', because I was not aware of the nuance in meaning. [0]: Yes, I am aware of the various disparities in meaning of the word 'freedom'. In this sense I mean that isolating the rights of people based on various characteristics of them (Say, their religion, sexuality, etc.) is very, very wrong -- and the people who support this are against the very tenets of personal freedom.

Spooky23 10y ago

> I could easily see ~alt-right~ fascist journalists donating $1 to many different left-wing parties to get a record of affiliation Why? Anyone who cares enough to verify that will quickly see through it.