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Here's the problem: thedonald is a subreddit full of both real trump supporters, AND trolls who're acting surreptitiously to rile up the real supporters and pis

Here's the problem: thedonald is a subreddit full of both real trump supporters, AND trolls who're acting surreptitiously to rile up the real supporters and piss off everyone else; which is also spilling over and affecting other parts of reddit, including /all. The problem for the reddit admins is how to control and contain it and punish the trolls without affecting real people, or being overly censurous. So for someone who's basically being sniped at by hundreds of guerilla warriors who can make thousands of other people dance as their puppets, it's not surprising they'd reach for a similar tool in frustration when attacked directly, wrongly and frivolously.

tdkl 10y ago
They shouldn't though, if they want to be credible and the site they own/market. Now this is lost.
- slowmotiony 10y ago
  Was reddit ever really credible?
  - tdkl 10y ago
    They made sure in the media they are.
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  imo he's gained credibility
  - admax88q 10y ago
    "I don't care what he did so long as it was against those I disagree with."
    - Mithaldu 10y ago
      You're thinking too shallow. :) It took people harrassing him personally, and at scale, for him to snap. And even then he did not ban anyone, but did what amounts to a prank. And even then he did not hide it, but owned it and apologized. At every turn of this he showed himself to be a greater man than most of us.
      - tdkl 10y ago
        Lets hope Zuckerberg doesn't snap then, but I'm sure "dumb fucks"* will find an apology for that too. *his words, not mine
        Mithaldu 10y ago
        As long as he follows up in the same mature manner, it'll be unfortunate, but forgivable. :) Also, calling someone a dumbfuck and pretending you didn't just do that because it's "just a quote" is not the greatest a look a person can aim for. ;)
        admax88q 10y ago
        I'm not even sure who he's quoting as calling "dumb fucks"
        nostrademons 10y ago
        Mark Zuckerburg, referring to Facebook users. http://www.businessinsider.com/embarrassing-and-damaging-zuckerberg-ims-confirmed-by-zuckerberg-the-new-yorker-2010-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/embarrassing-and-damaging-zuc...
        admax88q 10y ago
        > *his words, not mine Who's words?
        burning_stubble 10y ago
        https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg
    - siidooloo 10y ago
      The people he did this to were jabbing him in the eye with a sharp stick because reddit took action against them for falsley accusing people of being pedophiles. His action was wrong. But it was provoked.
      - admax88q 10y ago
        That was my point with comments like "imo he's gained credibility" There are other comments celebrating what he did because it was again /r/the_donald "trolls." Lot's of people don't care what actions you take so long as its against a group/individual that they don't like. That is short sighted thinking IMO.
        SwellJoe 10y ago
        I think the distinction is behavior, not "people they don't like". Witch hunts are against the guidelines of reddit; that's not a secret. Whether you support Trump or not isn't relevant, if you're on a witch hunt. Likewise, posting personal information has, from almost the very beginning of reddit, been the one cardinal sin. The sin that'll get you banned or a subreddit closed down. That's what spez was responding to. He did it in a terribly immature way that I could never condone (unless it were really funny, like this, in which case, I think it's hilarious). But, it was not a random "I don't like this group" situation, and to frame it that way is to manipulate the narrative. The behavior in question was a witch hunt, and against reddit rules; the witch hunt started because a subreddit was banned for posting (tons of!) personal information and launching a witch hunt against a random restaurant and bar and its owners. Again, that's clearly against reddit rules. Those rules are reasonable, and if someone doesn't like them, they should take their shit elsewhere. It's not about not liking The_Donald. Nobody likes The_Donald, but reddit has always been more than fair in dealing with all of their bullshit; the vote brigades (against reddit rules), the orchestrated abuse of other subs and moderators and users, etc. Large swaths of them probably should have been banned months ago. But, Steve has always been slow to ban. Probably to a fault. When you fail to ban folks like this you breed a community of people like this, who feel entitled to be abusive without response.
sangnoir 10y ago
> Here's the problem: thedonald is a subreddit full of both real trump supporters, AND trolls who're acting surreptitiously to rile up the real supporters and piss off everyone else Shouldn't the mods clean up after the trolls who don't abide by the subreddit rules? If a post stays up for days, it is safe to assume the mods condone it whether it was posted by a 'troll' or a 'real person' - this goes for any subreddit.
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  There's a site that gives you a thing you can use to show deleted posts in reddit threads, called uneddit.com Try it on thedonald.
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    I don't quite follow the argument that you are making - are you saying they mods are overwhelmed? The whole point of having mod(erator)s is to moderate - subreddits are their own communities with the mods in charge. They are responsible for setting the ground rules and enforcing them, if you have a different understanding of how Reddit works, please let me know.
    - Mithaldu 10y ago
      I'm saying that i personally don't think the mods there give a single damn about cleaning anything.
- siidooloo 10y ago
  If you try to clean up after the trolls they'll just shitpost at you even more. Short of nuking the entire subreddit there's nothing to do.
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    so what is the point of having moderators?
samstave 10y ago
You're describing a seemingly natural human reaction. However - the CEO shouldn't be reacting like this - he needs a PR team to spin it however he wants to spin it - but he shouldnt single-handedly, with one action, literally destroy any semblance of credibility the 8th largest site in the US even has. FB was allowing employees to simply READ any comments/posts/PMs between users and recall what a shitstorm that was... but now imagine if Zuck was personally freaking editing posts about him? (or if he had a team of ppl doing it for him and then admitting to it/bragging about it on corp comms???) /u/spez may have truly done a really big hit to reddits future. Can we get @DANG's opinion?
- mcphage 10y ago
  > /u/spez may have truly done a really big hit to reddits future. Oh man, if Reddit takes a stand and says "we're not going to treat trolls and non-trolls the same anymore", I would feel a ton better about spending time there.
  - meowface 10y ago
    How does one define a troll vs. a non-troll? You also have to consider that, as incredibly ridiculous and batshit crazy as it is, a high percentage of the /r/pizzagate people 100% believe it's true and that they're uncovering a massive criminal ring.

tdkl 10y ago

They shouldn't though, if they want to be credible and the site they own/market. Now this is lost.

slowmotiony 10y ago
Was reddit ever really credible?
- tdkl 10y ago
  They made sure in the media they are.
Mithaldu 10y ago
imo he's gained credibility
- admax88q 10y ago
  "I don't care what he did so long as it was against those I disagree with."
  - Mithaldu 10y ago
    You're thinking too shallow. :) It took people harrassing him personally, and at scale, for him to snap. And even then he did not ban anyone, but did what amounts to a prank. And even then he did not hide it, but owned it and apologized. At every turn of this he showed himself to be a greater man than most of us.
    - tdkl 10y ago
      Lets hope Zuckerberg doesn't snap then, but I'm sure "dumb fucks"* will find an apology for that too. *his words, not mine
      - Mithaldu 10y ago
        As long as he follows up in the same mature manner, it'll be unfortunate, but forgivable. :) Also, calling someone a dumbfuck and pretending you didn't just do that because it's "just a quote" is not the greatest a look a person can aim for. ;)
        admax88q 10y ago
        I'm not even sure who he's quoting as calling "dumb fucks"
        nostrademons 10y ago
        Mark Zuckerburg, referring to Facebook users. http://www.businessinsider.com/embarrassing-and-damaging-zuckerberg-ims-confirmed-by-zuckerberg-the-new-yorker-2010-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/embarrassing-and-damaging-zuc...
      - admax88q 10y ago
        > *his words, not mine Who's words?
        burning_stubble 10y ago
        https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg
  - siidooloo 10y ago
    The people he did this to were jabbing him in the eye with a sharp stick because reddit took action against them for falsley accusing people of being pedophiles. His action was wrong. But it was provoked.
    - admax88q 10y ago
      That was my point with comments like "imo he's gained credibility" There are other comments celebrating what he did because it was again /r/the_donald "trolls." Lot's of people don't care what actions you take so long as its against a group/individual that they don't like. That is short sighted thinking IMO.
      - SwellJoe 10y ago
        I think the distinction is behavior, not "people they don't like". Witch hunts are against the guidelines of reddit; that's not a secret. Whether you support Trump or not isn't relevant, if you're on a witch hunt. Likewise, posting personal information has, from almost the very beginning of reddit, been the one cardinal sin. The sin that'll get you banned or a subreddit closed down. That's what spez was responding to. He did it in a terribly immature way that I could never condone (unless it were really funny, like this, in which case, I think it's hilarious). But, it was not a random "I don't like this group" situation, and to frame it that way is to manipulate the narrative. The behavior in question was a witch hunt, and against reddit rules; the witch hunt started because a subreddit was banned for posting (tons of!) personal information and launching a witch hunt against a random restaurant and bar and its owners. Again, that's clearly against reddit rules. Those rules are reasonable, and if someone doesn't like them, they should take their shit elsewhere. It's not about not liking The_Donald. Nobody likes The_Donald, but reddit has always been more than fair in dealing with all of their bullshit; the vote brigades (against reddit rules), the orchestrated abuse of other subs and moderators and users, etc. Large swaths of them probably should have been banned months ago. But, Steve has always been slow to ban. Probably to a fault. When you fail to ban folks like this you breed a community of people like this, who feel entitled to be abusive without response.

sangnoir 10y ago

> Here's the problem: thedonald is a subreddit full of both real trump supporters, AND trolls who're acting surreptitiously to rile up the real supporters and piss off everyone else Shouldn't the mods clean up after the trolls who don't abide by the subreddit rules? If a post stays up for days, it is safe to assume the mods condone it whether it was posted by a 'troll' or a 'real person' - this goes for any subreddit.

Mithaldu 10y ago
There's a site that gives you a thing you can use to show deleted posts in reddit threads, called uneddit.com Try it on thedonald.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  I don't quite follow the argument that you are making - are you saying they mods are overwhelmed? The whole point of having mod(erator)s is to moderate - subreddits are their own communities with the mods in charge. They are responsible for setting the ground rules and enforcing them, if you have a different understanding of how Reddit works, please let me know.
  - Mithaldu 10y ago
    I'm saying that i personally don't think the mods there give a single damn about cleaning anything.
siidooloo 10y ago
If you try to clean up after the trolls they'll just shitpost at you even more. Short of nuking the entire subreddit there's nothing to do.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  so what is the point of having moderators?

samstave 10y ago

You're describing a seemingly natural human reaction. However - the CEO shouldn't be reacting like this - he needs a PR team to spin it however he wants to spin it - but he shouldnt single-handedly, with one action, literally destroy any semblance of credibility the 8th largest site in the US even has. FB was allowing employees to simply READ any comments/posts/PMs between users and recall what a shitstorm that was... but now imagine if Zuck was personally freaking editing posts about him? (or if he had a team of ppl doing it for him and then admitting to it/bragging about it on corp comms???) /u/spez may have truly done a really big hit to reddits future. Can we get @DANG's opinion?

mcphage 10y ago
> /u/spez may have truly done a really big hit to reddits future. Oh man, if Reddit takes a stand and says "we're not going to treat trolls and non-trolls the same anymore", I would feel a ton better about spending time there.
- meowface 10y ago
  How does one define a troll vs. a non-troll? You also have to consider that, as incredibly ridiculous and batshit crazy as it is, a high percentage of the /r/pizzagate people 100% believe it's true and that they're uncovering a massive criminal ring.