5 ms·

Pizzagate is a conspiracy theory that spawned from the Podesta email leaks that cover a pedophile ring that involves several government officials. There's a de

Pizzagate is a conspiracy theory that spawned from the Podesta email leaks that cover a pedophile ring that involves several government officials. There's a decent amount of circumstantial evidence for it, but I personally still think a bit of a stretch.

tptacek 10y ago
Is it possible that this is all a misunderstanding based on some odd subculture's redefinition of the term "circumstantial evidence"?
- DanBC 10y ago
  The "evil paedophile elites are kidnapping children to abuse them" (alternatively, CPS kidnap children to sell for adoption) conspiracy theory has existed for a long time. Six years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh-dNAby174 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh-dNAby174 Four years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5LyzuVUweU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5LyzuVUweU Eight years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_C75RO6LL4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_C75RO6LL4 Once the conspiracy theory exists you're going to get a mix of people who really believe it finding subreddits to share "proof"; trolls who like the lulz; people who don't know and don't care but who hate that politician and will share anything negative about them; and baffled people on the outside who can't tell the difference and can't understand how anyone can think that politicians order children for abuse by email.
  - patrickg_zill 10y ago
    Who is Clement Freud? Who is Cyril Smith? What was the Dutroux affair? Who is Jimmy Savile? What was the Franklin cover up? Every case has to be considered on its own merits, of course.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm not sure anyone is arguing that child sex exploitation is something that doesn't happen at all.
      - patrickg_zill 10y ago
        From my observation and IMHO, pedophiles do make use of networks of people to find additional kids to abuse; sometimes it is via a social network with lax supervision (trust by regular people of a predator), and sometimes, an actual group of pedophiles participating. Of course 2 or more people participating in certain acts, or even assisting a pedophile means "conspiracy". In PizzaGate, I am keeping an open mind, and not scoffing; mainly due to some rather weird Instagram pictures and comments that used to be publicly available, that were linked to Comet Ping Pong and/or the owner. They were quite... unusual.
        tptacek 10y ago
        Hasn't this Instagram stuff been debunked by the NYT? Whatever you might think of their political leanings, the NYT isn't covering up a pedophilia conspiracy in the service of the campaign manager of a candidate who just lost the election. Why would I trust people who actively cheerlead Putinist fakenews over the NYT's own fact checkers?
        patrickg_zill 10y ago
        You should look for the archived Instagram pages of his and make up your own mind. Neither NYT article that I found, directly address what the innocuous meanings of hash tags like #killroom (with pic of enclosed windowless room) and #chickenlover (pic while holding a young boy) are. Like I said, I found this unusual.
        pcwalton 10y ago
        > You should look for the archived Instagram pages of his and make up your own mind. No, because the Instagram pictures are faked. Snopes debunked this. http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/ http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/
    - DanBC 10y ago
      What is Hampstead Satanic Abuse? http://bfms.org.uk/hampstead-satanic-cult-hoax/ http://bfms.org.uk/hampstead-satanic-cult-hoax/ Who is Holly Greig? What was the Cleeveland Ritual Abuse Scandal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_child_abuse_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_child_abuse_scandal (See also Rochdale, Orkney, Broxtowe, etc.) Those historic scandals don't stop misreporting today, see the coconut shell reported by police and media as being a skull fragment -- even after it had been tested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_child_abuse_investigation_2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_child_abuse_investigati... The sad fact is that child abuse is fantastically common, and by devoting so much time to bogus bullshit we're failing to protect children who are being harmed right now, mostly by their relatives.

tptacek 10y ago

Is it possible that this is all a misunderstanding based on some odd subculture's redefinition of the term "circumstantial evidence"?

DanBC 10y ago
The "evil paedophile elites are kidnapping children to abuse them" (alternatively, CPS kidnap children to sell for adoption) conspiracy theory has existed for a long time. Six years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh-dNAby174 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh-dNAby174 Four years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5LyzuVUweU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5LyzuVUweU Eight years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_C75RO6LL4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_C75RO6LL4 Once the conspiracy theory exists you're going to get a mix of people who really believe it finding subreddits to share "proof"; trolls who like the lulz; people who don't know and don't care but who hate that politician and will share anything negative about them; and baffled people on the outside who can't tell the difference and can't understand how anyone can think that politicians order children for abuse by email.
- patrickg_zill 10y ago
  Who is Clement Freud? Who is Cyril Smith? What was the Dutroux affair? Who is Jimmy Savile? What was the Franklin cover up? Every case has to be considered on its own merits, of course.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm not sure anyone is arguing that child sex exploitation is something that doesn't happen at all.
    - patrickg_zill 10y ago
      From my observation and IMHO, pedophiles do make use of networks of people to find additional kids to abuse; sometimes it is via a social network with lax supervision (trust by regular people of a predator), and sometimes, an actual group of pedophiles participating. Of course 2 or more people participating in certain acts, or even assisting a pedophile means "conspiracy". In PizzaGate, I am keeping an open mind, and not scoffing; mainly due to some rather weird Instagram pictures and comments that used to be publicly available, that were linked to Comet Ping Pong and/or the owner. They were quite... unusual.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        Hasn't this Instagram stuff been debunked by the NYT? Whatever you might think of their political leanings, the NYT isn't covering up a pedophilia conspiracy in the service of the campaign manager of a candidate who just lost the election. Why would I trust people who actively cheerlead Putinist fakenews over the NYT's own fact checkers?
        patrickg_zill 10y ago
        You should look for the archived Instagram pages of his and make up your own mind. Neither NYT article that I found, directly address what the innocuous meanings of hash tags like #killroom (with pic of enclosed windowless room) and #chickenlover (pic while holding a young boy) are. Like I said, I found this unusual.
        pcwalton 10y ago
        > You should look for the archived Instagram pages of his and make up your own mind. No, because the Instagram pictures are faked. Snopes debunked this. http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/ http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/
  - DanBC 10y ago
    What is Hampstead Satanic Abuse? http://bfms.org.uk/hampstead-satanic-cult-hoax/ http://bfms.org.uk/hampstead-satanic-cult-hoax/ Who is Holly Greig? What was the Cleeveland Ritual Abuse Scandal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_child_abuse_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_child_abuse_scandal (See also Rochdale, Orkney, Broxtowe, etc.) Those historic scandals don't stop misreporting today, see the coconut shell reported by police and media as being a skull fragment -- even after it had been tested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_child_abuse_investigation_2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_child_abuse_investigati... The sad fact is that child abuse is fantastically common, and by devoting so much time to bogus bullshit we're failing to protect children who are being harmed right now, mostly by their relatives.