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> Except it has not worked... Not as a currency. Bitcoin is working as a currency. You might not like, or been aware of it, but plenty of drugs users and crimi

by ogig 10y ago

> Except it has not worked... Not as a currency. Bitcoin is working as a currency. You might not like, or been aware of it, but plenty of drugs users and criminals use bitcoin everyday. It works.

abritinthebay 10y ago
No, there it works as a tradable commodity. Different. Similar, but different. It's an important difference too.
- TelmoMenezes 10y ago
  Because you say so? Commodities are goods or services, bitcoin is neither.
  - csomar 10y ago
    I don't want to get into this discussion but everything is an asset. Bitcoin is an asset, so is the coffee you bought today at starbucks. It doesn't really matter as long as you can bridge it for your needs.
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    No, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs, usually fungible. Bitcoin is all of those. It's for this reason that the USCFTC ruled that Bitcoin is a commodity. So not because I say so; because the people whose job it is to say so, say so.
Canada 10y ago
I can't imagine the majority of users are criminals. I've recently tried it out as a means of receiving payment for completely legitimate work. The client was in a different country. The contract was signed in USD. Client sends half at then exchange rate, which arrived very fast. After accepting the delivered work the client sends the other half, which was less BTC because the price went up by that point. But it didn't matter because the first half I was holding appreciated so it's all the same. Turned out one of my vendors likes Bitcoin so I used some of it to settle an outstanding bill with him, then sold the rest at an exchange. Opening that account for the company was a pain in the ass, though less painful that opening a typical brokerage account. I had to pay a fee to the exchange to sell and another fee for them to wire the funds to my bank. It was faster and cost less than a credit card. It was more expensive than a check, but way way way faster. It was cheaper than SWIFT overall, but a few dollars more expensive to me because I bore the costs of selling while the client only bore the tiny costs of the Bitcoin transaction fees. If the contract was for a much larger amount then SWIFT would have been better. For accounting purposes I'm just treating BTC as a foreign currency. I would accept it again, it's great to actually receive payment that fast.
- davidgerard 10y ago
  > I can't imagine the majority of users are criminals. The overwhelming majority use of bitcoin is speculation on Chinese exchanges - 95% of blockchain activity. Even drug users and ransomware are sideshows. http://www.coindesk.com/state-of-bitcoin-blockchain-2016/ http://www.coindesk.com/state-of-bitcoin-blockchain-2016/
  - csomar 10y ago
    1. You have no definitive proof for that. If you do, please present it. 2. The amount of Futures contract in Okcoin is around $120million (that's not even capital, but the amount of leveraged futures). The total market cap of bitcoin is $12Bn which 100 times higher than that. 3. GBTC has a market cap of $190m with a 50% premium on bitcoin price. So clearly it's not only the chinese who drives the bitcoin price/economy.
    - davidgerard 10y ago
      I literally linked my reference. I found similar references. Lowest figure I've seen is 90% Chinese speculators. edit: if you mean the drug usage as the next biggest: in 2014, darknet markets saw more use than all legitimate payment processors put together. https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity15/technical-sessions/presentation/soska https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity15/technical...
csomar 10y ago
I'm using Bitcoin to get paid, withdraw to ATM/Bank accounts, hold wealth (yes in Bitcoin) and actively day trade. I also use it purchase stuff online on sites that accept bitcoin. No, I don't deal with drugs/criminal users.
- ogig 10y ago
  Of course. The point been that bitcoin is used for real, not that is exclusive for criminals.
Terr_ 10y ago
"It gets traded sometimes" != "It's a currency"

by ogig 10y ago

> Except it has not worked... Not as a currency. Bitcoin is working as a currency. You might not like, or been aware of it, but plenty of drugs users and criminals use bitcoin everyday. It works.

abritinthebay 10y ago

No, there it works as a tradable commodity. Different. Similar, but different. It's an important difference too.

TelmoMenezes 10y ago
Because you say so? Commodities are goods or services, bitcoin is neither.
- csomar 10y ago
  I don't want to get into this discussion but everything is an asset. Bitcoin is an asset, so is the coffee you bought today at starbucks. It doesn't really matter as long as you can bridge it for your needs.
- abritinthebay 10y ago
  No, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs, usually fungible. Bitcoin is all of those. It's for this reason that the USCFTC ruled that Bitcoin is a commodity. So not because I say so; because the people whose job it is to say so, say so.

Canada 10y ago

I can't imagine the majority of users are criminals. I've recently tried it out as a means of receiving payment for completely legitimate work. The client was in a different country. The contract was signed in USD. Client sends half at then exchange rate, which arrived very fast. After accepting the delivered work the client sends the other half, which was less BTC because the price went up by that point. But it didn't matter because the first half I was holding appreciated so it's all the same. Turned out one of my vendors likes Bitcoin so I used some of it to settle an outstanding bill with him, then sold the rest at an exchange. Opening that account for the company was a pain in the ass, though less painful that opening a typical brokerage account. I had to pay a fee to the exchange to sell and another fee for them to wire the funds to my bank. It was faster and cost less than a credit card. It was more expensive than a check, but way way way faster. It was cheaper than SWIFT overall, but a few dollars more expensive to me because I bore the costs of selling while the client only bore the tiny costs of the Bitcoin transaction fees. If the contract was for a much larger amount then SWIFT would have been better. For accounting purposes I'm just treating BTC as a foreign currency. I would accept it again, it's great to actually receive payment that fast.

davidgerard 10y ago
> I can't imagine the majority of users are criminals. The overwhelming majority use of bitcoin is speculation on Chinese exchanges - 95% of blockchain activity. Even drug users and ransomware are sideshows. http://www.coindesk.com/state-of-bitcoin-blockchain-2016/ http://www.coindesk.com/state-of-bitcoin-blockchain-2016/
- csomar 10y ago
  1. You have no definitive proof for that. If you do, please present it. 2. The amount of Futures contract in Okcoin is around $120million (that's not even capital, but the amount of leveraged futures). The total market cap of bitcoin is $12Bn which 100 times higher than that. 3. GBTC has a market cap of $190m with a 50% premium on bitcoin price. So clearly it's not only the chinese who drives the bitcoin price/economy.
  - davidgerard 10y ago
    I literally linked my reference. I found similar references. Lowest figure I've seen is 90% Chinese speculators. edit: if you mean the drug usage as the next biggest: in 2014, darknet markets saw more use than all legitimate payment processors put together. https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity15/technical-sessions/presentation/soska https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity15/technical...

csomar 10y ago

I'm using Bitcoin to get paid, withdraw to ATM/Bank accounts, hold wealth (yes in Bitcoin) and actively day trade. I also use it purchase stuff online on sites that accept bitcoin. No, I don't deal with drugs/criminal users.

ogig 10y ago
Of course. The point been that bitcoin is used for real, not that is exclusive for criminals.

Terr_ 10y ago

"It gets traded sometimes" != "It's a currency"