8 ms·

I think it's more about the way they express their opinions, rather than the content of those opinions. Posting in ALL CAPS, posting fake news or insults to ot

by bcherny 10y ago

I think it's more about the way they express their opinions, rather than the content of those opinions. Posting in ALL CAPS, posting fake news or insults to other members of the community, posting to incite anger, etc. does not make for good discussion, and hurts the sense of community. That, and bringing that to other subreddits via brigading, etc.

trungaczne 10y ago
I hardly feel that sub to be any different than other political subs. If anything, the insane censorship, hivemind of r/politics is more toxic. But I guess the latter is "quiet" so it's alright. No discussion makes the best discussion.
- pavanky 10y ago
  The_Donald has the exact same problems and worse.
  - a_bonobo 10y ago
    I've looked at the_donald a few times to escape my own filter bubble and it's very much censored - stuff like Trump's recent reneging on the persecution of Clinton didn't appear at all, and comments calling out Trump's lie about having saved that Ford factory from relocation to Mexico were promptly deleted. It's in their rules and that's part of the package, it's extremely controlled. Use uneddit.com on the_donald if you want to laugh.
    - Mithaldu 10y ago
      Holy shit, you were not kidding. uneddit makes it look like they just delete 90% of comments on principle.
    - tomp 10y ago
      But the point is, the_donald is obviously biased - it's literally in their name. On the other hand, r/pol is supposed to be politics in general, ideally free of bias, so censorship there is much more deplorable. I wouldn't care if r/leftwing_pol had a bias, but r/pol should be bias-free.
  - geowwy 10y ago
    That was the whole point of The_Donald – to protest the perceived abuses of other subs by doing the same thing more blatantly. That's what they mean when say they're a "free speech" subreddit: they're protesting against restrictions on free speech, they aren't providing a place for free speech.
    - pavanky 10y ago
      That is just ridiculous. Creating false stories, calling out anyone who doesnt agree with them with insulting names, going on witch hunts etc is not protesting the restrictions on free speech. This only strengthens the resolve of people who want to restrict free speech even more.
  - EdiX 10y ago
    The_Donald is called "The_Donald" not "politics". "politics" shouldn't have the exact same problems as "The_Donald".
a_bonobo 10y ago
Plus heaps of users browse /r/all and the the_donald community is so large, and the upvotes come so quickly (some insist it's upvoting bots since it's so fast) that the top of /r/all is often the_donald. Right now the nr. 1 post and another one on all are from the_donald.
- jrockway 10y ago
  We're making some headway with /r/EnoughTrumpSpam though, which is often at the top of /r/all too. Personally I enjoy the /r/all war between The_Donald and EnoughTrumpSpam. Everyone has a "safe place" to retreat to now, so it's all more funny than harmful. (I read The_Donald, and EnoughTrumpSpam lets me post similarly-styled comments and get massive upvotes, so I generally enjoy it. Kind of an Internet performance art.) Reddit is generally best consumed by selecting small subreddits. I really recommend against /r/all unless you enjoy internet drama and subreddit wars.
  - city41 10y ago
    Claiming that EnoughTrumpSpam is making headway just supports that the Reddit of today is a cesspool. I greatly miss the Reddit of 5 to 10 years ago. I'd love to see a new community site spring that figures out how to maintain quality and grow. And no, small subreddits aren't the answer. Seriously, Reddit about oh 8 years ago was just fantastic. HN for the most part does a good job maintaining comment quality, but it obviously has some advantages that a general community site would not have.
    - y_u_no_rust 10y ago
      Reddit hit it's eternal September a while ago now it's just a frequently updating youtube comments section (minus a few gems that honestly could be their own forums somewhere else)
    - cr1895 10y ago
      > And no, small subreddits aren't the answer. Seriously, Reddit about oh 8 years ago was just fantastic. Reddit of 8 years ago had on the whole much smaller subreddits, so that does suggest that the size of the communities plays a role in their quality.
gottam 10y ago
That's the kind of site they're running though. Make your own community with relatively lax rules and freedom of speech, even if the speech is low brow. Kind of like some of the *chans. If that's not what they want to have (as its clearly making the CEO on edge), why not enforce some strict rules? The people they don't like will simply flock to other communities that will allow it and it becomes their problem.
- ehnto 10y ago
  I agree. I get that free speech is important, but humans on the internet are vile. That is a fact and it hasn't changed in the decades of online communities we have trialed. Only communities small enough, or moderated enough, to not be interesting to a troll or nefarious person are spared. The idea of a completely self governed haven of mass free speech is a wondeful one, but no community large enough stays uncorrupted. It has never worked. It is the ideals and application of those ideals through moderation that make any community bearable, just like in real life. If I am to be part of a community I would rather it moderated, otherwise the people of the internet ruin all things in time. I just want to have useful conversations, not circlejerk over freedom of speech while being interrupted by adolescent screaming.
  - ehnto 10y ago
    Just to clarify, I believe free speech communities should exist and I am glad they do. I just find that the trolls inevitably take over, and that's no fun. I feel like reddit is currently battling this, and their decision seems to be to hold course, moderate more, and appeal to advertisers.
    - tomp 10y ago
      I disagree. The beauty of reddit is that it has subcommunities. That way, like-minded prople can flock together and even enforce strict censorship rules that make their community better, and reddit as a whole can still be a bastion of free speech (because they allow such diverse communities). Too bad that's not how it actually is...

by bcherny 10y ago

trungaczne 10y ago

I hardly feel that sub to be any different than other political subs. If anything, the insane censorship, hivemind of r/politics is more toxic. But I guess the latter is "quiet" so it's alright. No discussion makes the best discussion.

pavanky 10y ago
The_Donald has the exact same problems and worse.
- a_bonobo 10y ago
  I've looked at the_donald a few times to escape my own filter bubble and it's very much censored - stuff like Trump's recent reneging on the persecution of Clinton didn't appear at all, and comments calling out Trump's lie about having saved that Ford factory from relocation to Mexico were promptly deleted. It's in their rules and that's part of the package, it's extremely controlled. Use uneddit.com on the_donald if you want to laugh.
  - Mithaldu 10y ago
    Holy shit, you were not kidding. uneddit makes it look like they just delete 90% of comments on principle.
  - tomp 10y ago
    But the point is, the_donald is obviously biased - it's literally in their name. On the other hand, r/pol is supposed to be politics in general, ideally free of bias, so censorship there is much more deplorable. I wouldn't care if r/leftwing_pol had a bias, but r/pol should be bias-free.
- geowwy 10y ago
  That was the whole point of The_Donald – to protest the perceived abuses of other subs by doing the same thing more blatantly. That's what they mean when say they're a "free speech" subreddit: they're protesting against restrictions on free speech, they aren't providing a place for free speech.
  - pavanky 10y ago
    That is just ridiculous. Creating false stories, calling out anyone who doesnt agree with them with insulting names, going on witch hunts etc is not protesting the restrictions on free speech. This only strengthens the resolve of people who want to restrict free speech even more.
- EdiX 10y ago
  The_Donald is called "The_Donald" not "politics". "politics" shouldn't have the exact same problems as "The_Donald".

a_bonobo 10y ago

Plus heaps of users browse /r/all and the the_donald community is so large, and the upvotes come so quickly (some insist it's upvoting bots since it's so fast) that the top of /r/all is often the_donald. Right now the nr. 1 post and another one on all are from the_donald.

jrockway 10y ago
We're making some headway with /r/EnoughTrumpSpam though, which is often at the top of /r/all too. Personally I enjoy the /r/all war between The_Donald and EnoughTrumpSpam. Everyone has a "safe place" to retreat to now, so it's all more funny than harmful. (I read The_Donald, and EnoughTrumpSpam lets me post similarly-styled comments and get massive upvotes, so I generally enjoy it. Kind of an Internet performance art.) Reddit is generally best consumed by selecting small subreddits. I really recommend against /r/all unless you enjoy internet drama and subreddit wars.
- city41 10y ago
  Claiming that EnoughTrumpSpam is making headway just supports that the Reddit of today is a cesspool. I greatly miss the Reddit of 5 to 10 years ago. I'd love to see a new community site spring that figures out how to maintain quality and grow. And no, small subreddits aren't the answer. Seriously, Reddit about oh 8 years ago was just fantastic. HN for the most part does a good job maintaining comment quality, but it obviously has some advantages that a general community site would not have.
  - y_u_no_rust 10y ago
    Reddit hit it's eternal September a while ago now it's just a frequently updating youtube comments section (minus a few gems that honestly could be their own forums somewhere else)
  - cr1895 10y ago
    > And no, small subreddits aren't the answer. Seriously, Reddit about oh 8 years ago was just fantastic. Reddit of 8 years ago had on the whole much smaller subreddits, so that does suggest that the size of the communities plays a role in their quality.

gottam 10y ago

That's the kind of site they're running though. Make your own community with relatively lax rules and freedom of speech, even if the speech is low brow. Kind of like some of the *chans. If that's not what they want to have (as its clearly making the CEO on edge), why not enforce some strict rules? The people they don't like will simply flock to other communities that will allow it and it becomes their problem.

ehnto 10y ago
I agree. I get that free speech is important, but humans on the internet are vile. That is a fact and it hasn't changed in the decades of online communities we have trialed. Only communities small enough, or moderated enough, to not be interesting to a troll or nefarious person are spared. The idea of a completely self governed haven of mass free speech is a wondeful one, but no community large enough stays uncorrupted. It has never worked. It is the ideals and application of those ideals through moderation that make any community bearable, just like in real life. If I am to be part of a community I would rather it moderated, otherwise the people of the internet ruin all things in time. I just want to have useful conversations, not circlejerk over freedom of speech while being interrupted by adolescent screaming.
- ehnto 10y ago
  Just to clarify, I believe free speech communities should exist and I am glad they do. I just find that the trolls inevitably take over, and that's no fun. I feel like reddit is currently battling this, and their decision seems to be to hold course, moderate more, and appeal to advertisers.
  - tomp 10y ago
    I disagree. The beauty of reddit is that it has subcommunities. That way, like-minded prople can flock together and even enforce strict censorship rules that make their community better, and reddit as a whole can still be a bastion of free speech (because they allow such diverse communities). Too bad that's not how it actually is...