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Unfortunately, some Telegram usability comes from a reduction in security. Things like seamlessly going, with full chat-history, between multiple devices is a b

Unfortunately, some Telegram usability comes from a reduction in security. Things like seamlessly going, with full chat-history, between multiple devices is a bit tricky when your protocol only permits one person to receive a message once, rather than storing the messages unencrypted on the server like Telegram does. One "secure" approach would be that of the older Skype clients, where chat history synced between the logged in clients of a user. However, that was a horrible user experience, made worse by bad notification management. So while Signal can get better, you will probably always have to decide between usability and security, which is most likely the very reason that "normal" people always end up with the less secure solution, which in turn renders the secure solution even less usable with its smaller userbase.

andai 10y ago
How does userbase affect usability? Also, I tried Wire recently, which has e2e and all your messages on all your devices. I tnink sent messages duplicated, encrypted with each of your devices keys. So when you add a device it can't read previous messages.
- 3poundkilograms 10y ago
  An instant messaging platform needs a network of users. I am more likely to use a platform that allows me to talk to all of my contacts, than to use multiple platforms that only allows me to talk to a few each. If I have multiple, I am also only likely to add the new platform if there is at least a handful of people I know there. Likewise, the more users that are on the platform, the more likely that new users will be attracted. I am on Telegram primarily because it's the best I can come up with that my friends use, and moving my friends is an unlikely task as they have their friends on Telegram as well. You need to move or duplicate users from existing platforms to get a userbase, but you need a userbase to attract users from existing platforms. I have been looking at Wire. They're using the signal protocol, but in a more closed model IIRC. I didn't know that they had a solution to this problem, though, and always just through of them as basic Signal clone. I guess I'll have to have a look. :)
pqs 10y ago
Well. Facebook is not secure and we don't care. Most users don't care about security and this should not be a problem. Telegram is a very nice mobile platform. I use it to share a microblog (Telegram Channel) with some friends and it is very nice. The only gripe I have with it is their propaganda on security. Telegram is not secure, but I don't care, I already have Signal for sending encrypted messages.
- 3poundkilograms 10y ago
  Well, this is the point. It's really hard to convince people to make a change, especially if it costs them anything (such as synced chat logs), on basis of something they don't care about. I would say that it is a massive problem that users don't care about security, though. They just don't know, because they haven't been screwed over yet. People cared a lot in retrospect when the password bruteforce leaked iCloud pictures, for example. People don't care about politics before it's too late, either. On a positive note, Facebook seems to be screwing itself over in usability and content. I used to be on there reluctantly, but now I only check the input every two weeks or so to check for annoying relatives that might message me. The news feeds are nothing but uninteresting clickbaits, and they keep making it harder and hard to just check the bloody messenger inbox.

andai 10y ago

How does userbase affect usability? Also, I tried Wire recently, which has e2e and all your messages on all your devices. I tnink sent messages duplicated, encrypted with each of your devices keys. So when you add a device it can't read previous messages.

3poundkilograms 10y ago
An instant messaging platform needs a network of users. I am more likely to use a platform that allows me to talk to all of my contacts, than to use multiple platforms that only allows me to talk to a few each. If I have multiple, I am also only likely to add the new platform if there is at least a handful of people I know there. Likewise, the more users that are on the platform, the more likely that new users will be attracted. I am on Telegram primarily because it's the best I can come up with that my friends use, and moving my friends is an unlikely task as they have their friends on Telegram as well. You need to move or duplicate users from existing platforms to get a userbase, but you need a userbase to attract users from existing platforms. I have been looking at Wire. They're using the signal protocol, but in a more closed model IIRC. I didn't know that they had a solution to this problem, though, and always just through of them as basic Signal clone. I guess I'll have to have a look. :)

pqs 10y ago

Well. Facebook is not secure and we don't care. Most users don't care about security and this should not be a problem. Telegram is a very nice mobile platform. I use it to share a microblog (Telegram Channel) with some friends and it is very nice. The only gripe I have with it is their propaganda on security. Telegram is not secure, but I don't care, I already have Signal for sending encrypted messages.

3poundkilograms 10y ago
Well, this is the point. It's really hard to convince people to make a change, especially if it costs them anything (such as synced chat logs), on basis of something they don't care about. I would say that it is a massive problem that users don't care about security, though. They just don't know, because they haven't been screwed over yet. People cared a lot in retrospect when the password bruteforce leaked iCloud pictures, for example. People don't care about politics before it's too late, either. On a positive note, Facebook seems to be screwing itself over in usability and content. I used to be on there reluctantly, but now I only check the input every two weeks or so to check for annoying relatives that might message me. The news feeds are nothing but uninteresting clickbaits, and they keep making it harder and hard to just check the bloody messenger inbox.