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I have used Signal for a while, alongside Telegram and Whatsapp. I find the fact that they are chrome apps / require your phone to be online very annoying. Also

I have used Signal for a while, alongside Telegram and Whatsapp. I find the fact that they are chrome apps / require your phone to be online very annoying. Also I find signal regularly messes with the order of messages. Right now I am testing with Wire, and waiting for proper pasting from clipboard. Although I am concerned with privacy, and I applaud the efforts from OWS, usability is more important to me. It will always be some sort of a tradeoff I guess. Although things seem to be getting better I am saddened by the lack of federation.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lorenzhs 10y ago
Signal-Desktop does NOT require your phone to be on! After initial setup, it can be used completely independently of the phone (it only talks to the phone for contact sync, not messages). The opposite is often claimed on here and seems to be self-perpetuating, but it's wrong. (edited for clarification)
- saycheese 10y ago
  Per the offical docs, you are required to create an account on a phone to use the desktop version: http://support.whispersystems.org/hc/en-us/articles/215077857-What-is-Signal-Desktop-How-can-I-sign-up- http://support.whispersystems.org/hc/en-us/articles/21507785... __________________ What do I need? 1. Register and set up Signal Android or Signal iOS 2. Download and install Google Chrome or use Chromium +++++++ EDIT: Having to buy and throw away a phone to use a service that's intent is to provide privacy is what it is; worth noting you revised your comment after I posted mine.
  - lorenzhs 10y ago
    Sorry if I wasn't clear enough - you need a phone for initial setup. After that, you can throw away the phone (or put it in airplane mode for a less permanent solution) and the Desktop client will keep working. In contrast, WhatsApp Web sends messages via your phone, so your phone needs to be on and connected to use it. Not so with Signal. That said, registration independent of a phone number comes up a lot here. Signal is primarily a mobile messenger, so the assumption that its users have a smart phone running Android or iOS is a valid one imho. It would be nice if people without a smart phone could use it, too, but implementing this in a way that maintains Signal's ease of use for all participants isn't exactly trivial (contact discovery is a big one). I'd appreciate it, but I can also understand why it's not #1 on OWS' list of priorities.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - whyoh 10y ago
      >implementing this in a way that maintains Signal's ease of use for all participants isn't exactly trivial (contact discovery is a big one). I disagree, as long as it's an OPTIONAL and non-default method. Many people (billions?) have been registering to various messaging services (from email to Skype and all kinds of IMs) and finding each other just fine, without using a phone/phone number. Phone based authentication has a couple of advantages too, but when a "privacy oriented" messaging app has this as the only option it's fair to point it out.
  - shouldbew0rking 10y ago
    Hello saycheese, I have been toying with this idea, I haven't actually done it myself but I know people that have. 1) get a VOIP provider to give you a free iNum number 2) download signal to your smartphone or ipod of choice 3) during the registration phase, delete the number that it suggests, replace it with the iNum number from step 1. 4) make sure to have the registration process do the "voice call" method where it calls you and reads you off the registration number. 5) register. Assuming that you already own a cellphone and you use a free voip app like csipsimple or linphone. iNums are free from most voip providers. Then this process costs nothing.
- mvdwoord 10y ago
  My apologies, Signal might not need it, but WhatsApp does. Out of order messages and some other quirks still make for a poor UX in my opinion.
morganvachon 10y ago
> I find the fact that they are chrome apps...very annoying That's my biggest issue with Signal as well. I very recently (as in, over the past two days) completely dropped Google from my life[1]. I switched from Gmail to FastMail for email, calendar, and contacts, and FastMail also offers 10GB of file storage at their middle tier, which is about five times as much space as I was using in Google Drive. I switched from Chrome/Chromium to Firefox, and I'm currently trying to decide which photo backup service to use to replace Google Photos. I'll probably run CollaboraOnline via a local Nextcloud server for a good Google Docs replacement. I'm using StartPage for search, as I find its results to be more relevant than DDG. All of that said to say this: It's absolutely refreshing to break out of the Google tar pit, and I'm very interested in a secure messaging app that doesn't depend on them at all. Being free from 24/7/365 tracking, no matter if it's "just for advertising purposes", is a breath of fresh air, as is knowing that all my eggs are spread out among several baskets now. [1] I do still have an Android phone (Nexus 6) but I switched from the official Google ROM to the latest stable Cyanogenmod, and opted to not install the Google apps bundle. My battery life has gone from about 30 hours between charges to nearly 70 hours (as predicted by the battery meter; I haven't had to charge it since I installed CM on Monday night and I'm at 81% as of Wednesday morning). I've been using F-Droid for some great replacements for many of my everyday apps, and the Amazon App Store for a few necessities like Paypal and Fing. As on the desktop, I'm using Firefox on the phone mostly for the syncing capability, though I will say the built-in browser on CM is fantastic. Of course, I'm actively seeking a non-Android, non-Apple alternative for a mobile phone, and right now the DragonBox Pyra is a front-runner, with the Neo900 a close second.
- notheguyouthink 10y ago
  > as is knowing that all my eggs are spread out among several baskets now. This is what i want (and what i'm actively working towards)! The "banned from Google" talk has really harmed them in my eyes.. at least for people like me. I hadn't really questioned Google in the past, but now i'm looking to spread out my eggs as much as possible. Very important to me.
  - jhauris 10y ago
johnchristopher 10y ago
Telegram doesn't require your phone to be online. I have a telegram account the number of which has never been used with the smartphone application.
- mvdwoord 10y ago
  I also use Telegram, it is currently my favourite messaging platform actually. It is not even so much the registering with a telephone I mind personally, but WhatsApp requires your phone to be online whilst using the desktop app. Jumping WiFi and VPN throughout the day this sometimes gets annoying. Testing wire for being Swiss based as well as being an implementation of the Axolotl/Signal protocol.
tdkl 10y ago
What's wrong with pasting from clipboard ?
- mvdwoord 10y ago
  The wire desktop client currently does not support pasting an image from the clipboard. It is listed as a feature request though, so I expect it to be implemented in the near future.
  - tdkl 10y ago
    Oh, I thought it's something about the mobile client. I also noticed it doesn't support drag/drop with an image, probably because it's an electron app and things like that has to be coded specifically.
mrbiber 10y ago
If you are interested in federation, riot.im [1] / matrix.org seems to have comparable security properties to Signal, allows federation of servers and does not require your phone number or Google Play. [1] https://riot.im https://riot.im
Mithaldu 10y ago
Wire is even worse because the person responsible for design and UX is unassailably high in the company, and doesn't take advice from anyone

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

lorenzhs 10y ago

Signal-Desktop does NOT require your phone to be on! After initial setup, it can be used completely independently of the phone (it only talks to the phone for contact sync, not messages). The opposite is often claimed on here and seems to be self-perpetuating, but it's wrong. (edited for clarification)

saycheese 10y ago
Per the offical docs, you are required to create an account on a phone to use the desktop version: http://support.whispersystems.org/hc/en-us/articles/215077857-What-is-Signal-Desktop-How-can-I-sign-up- http://support.whispersystems.org/hc/en-us/articles/21507785... __________________ What do I need? 1. Register and set up Signal Android or Signal iOS 2. Download and install Google Chrome or use Chromium +++++++ EDIT: Having to buy and throw away a phone to use a service that's intent is to provide privacy is what it is; worth noting you revised your comment after I posted mine.
- lorenzhs 10y ago
  Sorry if I wasn't clear enough - you need a phone for initial setup. After that, you can throw away the phone (or put it in airplane mode for a less permanent solution) and the Desktop client will keep working. In contrast, WhatsApp Web sends messages via your phone, so your phone needs to be on and connected to use it. Not so with Signal. That said, registration independent of a phone number comes up a lot here. Signal is primarily a mobile messenger, so the assumption that its users have a smart phone running Android or iOS is a valid one imho. It would be nice if people without a smart phone could use it, too, but implementing this in a way that maintains Signal's ease of use for all participants isn't exactly trivial (contact discovery is a big one). I'd appreciate it, but I can also understand why it's not #1 on OWS' list of priorities.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - whyoh 10y ago
    >implementing this in a way that maintains Signal's ease of use for all participants isn't exactly trivial (contact discovery is a big one). I disagree, as long as it's an OPTIONAL and non-default method. Many people (billions?) have been registering to various messaging services (from email to Skype and all kinds of IMs) and finding each other just fine, without using a phone/phone number. Phone based authentication has a couple of advantages too, but when a "privacy oriented" messaging app has this as the only option it's fair to point it out.
- shouldbew0rking 10y ago
  Hello saycheese, I have been toying with this idea, I haven't actually done it myself but I know people that have. 1) get a VOIP provider to give you a free iNum number 2) download signal to your smartphone or ipod of choice 3) during the registration phase, delete the number that it suggests, replace it with the iNum number from step 1. 4) make sure to have the registration process do the "voice call" method where it calls you and reads you off the registration number. 5) register. Assuming that you already own a cellphone and you use a free voip app like csipsimple or linphone. iNums are free from most voip providers. Then this process costs nothing.
mvdwoord 10y ago
My apologies, Signal might not need it, but WhatsApp does. Out of order messages and some other quirks still make for a poor UX in my opinion.

morganvachon 10y ago

> I find the fact that they are chrome apps...very annoying That's my biggest issue with Signal as well. I very recently (as in, over the past two days) completely dropped Google from my life[1]. I switched from Gmail to FastMail for email, calendar, and contacts, and FastMail also offers 10GB of file storage at their middle tier, which is about five times as much space as I was using in Google Drive. I switched from Chrome/Chromium to Firefox, and I'm currently trying to decide which photo backup service to use to replace Google Photos. I'll probably run CollaboraOnline via a local Nextcloud server for a good Google Docs replacement. I'm using StartPage for search, as I find its results to be more relevant than DDG. All of that said to say this: It's absolutely refreshing to break out of the Google tar pit, and I'm very interested in a secure messaging app that doesn't depend on them at all. Being free from 24/7/365 tracking, no matter if it's "just for advertising purposes", is a breath of fresh air, as is knowing that all my eggs are spread out among several baskets now. [1] I do still have an Android phone (Nexus 6) but I switched from the official Google ROM to the latest stable Cyanogenmod, and opted to not install the Google apps bundle. My battery life has gone from about 30 hours between charges to nearly 70 hours (as predicted by the battery meter; I haven't had to charge it since I installed CM on Monday night and I'm at 81% as of Wednesday morning). I've been using F-Droid for some great replacements for many of my everyday apps, and the Amazon App Store for a few necessities like Paypal and Fing. As on the desktop, I'm using Firefox on the phone mostly for the syncing capability, though I will say the built-in browser on CM is fantastic. Of course, I'm actively seeking a non-Android, non-Apple alternative for a mobile phone, and right now the DragonBox Pyra is a front-runner, with the Neo900 a close second.

notheguyouthink 10y ago
> as is knowing that all my eggs are spread out among several baskets now. This is what i want (and what i'm actively working towards)! The "banned from Google" talk has really harmed them in my eyes.. at least for people like me. I hadn't really questioned Google in the past, but now i'm looking to spread out my eggs as much as possible. Very important to me.
- jhauris 10y ago

johnchristopher 10y ago

Telegram doesn't require your phone to be online. I have a telegram account the number of which has never been used with the smartphone application.

mvdwoord 10y ago
I also use Telegram, it is currently my favourite messaging platform actually. It is not even so much the registering with a telephone I mind personally, but WhatsApp requires your phone to be online whilst using the desktop app. Jumping WiFi and VPN throughout the day this sometimes gets annoying. Testing wire for being Swiss based as well as being an implementation of the Axolotl/Signal protocol.

tdkl 10y ago

What's wrong with pasting from clipboard ?

mvdwoord 10y ago
The wire desktop client currently does not support pasting an image from the clipboard. It is listed as a feature request though, so I expect it to be implemented in the near future.
- tdkl 10y ago
  Oh, I thought it's something about the mobile client. I also noticed it doesn't support drag/drop with an image, probably because it's an electron app and things like that has to be coded specifically.

mrbiber 10y ago

If you are interested in federation, riot.im [1] / matrix.org seems to have comparable security properties to Signal, allows federation of servers and does not require your phone number or Google Play. [1] https://riot.im https://riot.im

Mithaldu 10y ago

Wire is even worse because the person responsible for design and UX is unassailably high in the company, and doesn't take advice from anyone