4 ms·

>we seem to have forgotten how to sit on the porch as the sun goes down and have a good heart-to-heart talk about our lives and values. We haven't forgotten, w

by heed 16y ago

>we seem to have forgotten how to sit on the porch as the sun goes down and have a good heart-to-heart talk about our lives and values. We haven't forgotten, we've just changed the space. Like right now, in this thread we're doing exactly what you claim is missing. Whether the porch is physical or virtual isn't nearly as important as the actual sharing of ideas.

moron4hire 16y ago
I somehow doubt anyone from HN is going to come to my funeral. We've created a system that allows us to select our own designer social network. With you're neighborhood, you're stuck with those people, you can't just go looking for a new physical community as easily as you can a virtual one. I think this is actually a good thing; it tends to teach a lot more patience between people.
- heed 16y ago
  Just because you live in a neighborhood, and have neighbors, doesn't mean they'll come to your funeral either. What I'm saying is physical space might not be the core issue here. The system we've created allows more freedom, freedom to choose your communities more closely. In some cases the trade off might be less patience, and I suppose in my own case, I value freedom above possible lack of patience.
  - moron4hire 16y ago
    I think the point that DanielBMarkham was trying to make was that, in order for the general person to feel whole, they need social interaction of some kind. You don't see too many hermits in the world. This ability to select our social networks allows us an emotional escape that de-prioritizes building relationships with physical neighbors. The advantages given to automobile travel started it, and the internet has accelerated it dramatically. I think the "freedom" to choose one's community is at the core of the complete lack of reasonable political discourse these days. It's very rare to see people calmly discussing issues with each other; they segregate themselves into their like-minded social groups, seeking validation for their preconceived notions rather than searching for the truth. When your barber who has been cutting your hair for 20 years expresses a view that you find surprising, you're going to tend to have a discussion with him about it, rather than shout at him and call him names. Each community, physical or virtual, has its own unique ideology. The difference between the physical and virtual is that physical ones must necessarily be inclusive, virtual ones are encouraged to be exclusive. Without getting too sidetracked, there is also the issue of the disconnect between seeing words on a screen and knowing deep in your subconscious that your dealing with a real person. Text on a screen is really difficult to anthropomorphize and sympathize with.
    - heed 16y ago
      I would argue that most communities are self-selected, virtual or not. >The difference between the physical and virtual is that physical ones must necessarily be inclusive, virtual ones are encouraged to be exclusive. It depends on the community. I don't see how physicality is the determining factor of what is inclusive or exclusive. Look at country clubs, or Hollywood. >Text on a screen is really difficult to anthropomorphize and sympathize with. Have you ever read a novel or story that moved you? Empathized with a fictional character? It is very possible to connect with text, you just have to be creative.
- joshu 16y ago
  I find the juxtaposition of your lament and the lack of your provided identity quite amusing.
  - moron4hire 16y ago
    I could have (conceivably) created an account name "Steve Jobs" and posted under that, which is another way in which virtual social interaction fails people. I've had friends find out that someone had been impersonating them on MySpace. At least in physical interaction, I have to stay logically consistent with everything I've told people before. Online, I could be a new person every day.
jerf 16y ago
Our forebrains don't care. Our hindbrains do.
masterj 16y ago
>Whether the porch is physical or virtual isn't nearly as important as the actual sharing of ideas. That would be like saying that the only important part of sex is the exchanging of fluids. Yes, the internet is great, but it cannot replace a strong family or community.
- heed 16y ago
  For me, a physical presence isn't a requirement in order to have a strong relationship with someone. So in my case, it could very well work as a replacement.
- lotharbot 16y ago
  > "That would be like saying that the only important part of sex is the exchanging of fluids." It strikes me as like saying the important parts of sex are the physical sensations and emotional connection (regardless of where the fluids end up.) It's dead on. I have a strong family and a strong community, but much of it is online. I met my wife on the internet (in 1998, on a website devoted to our favorite video game); another friend from the same website was a groomsman at our wedding; we named our son after the website's founder. Members of our online community have organized prayer groups, attended weddings and funerals of other members, and helped each other in times of physical, emotional, or financial crisis. I personally have met with people from our community in Chicago, Vancouver, Kansas City, Seattle, Denver, Colorado Springs, Provo, and at a hog farm near Medford, Oregon. The important part of community is not that we can walk over to each others' houses. It's that we can share with each other, help each other, take joy in each others successes, give comfort in failure or tragedy, learn from each other, and treat one another as friends. Not every website can live up to this standard of "community". But mine has for the last twelve years.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

by heed 16y ago

moron4hire 16y ago

I somehow doubt anyone from HN is going to come to my funeral. We've created a system that allows us to select our own designer social network. With you're neighborhood, you're stuck with those people, you can't just go looking for a new physical community as easily as you can a virtual one. I think this is actually a good thing; it tends to teach a lot more patience between people.

heed 16y ago
Just because you live in a neighborhood, and have neighbors, doesn't mean they'll come to your funeral either. What I'm saying is physical space might not be the core issue here. The system we've created allows more freedom, freedom to choose your communities more closely. In some cases the trade off might be less patience, and I suppose in my own case, I value freedom above possible lack of patience.
- moron4hire 16y ago
  I think the point that DanielBMarkham was trying to make was that, in order for the general person to feel whole, they need social interaction of some kind. You don't see too many hermits in the world. This ability to select our social networks allows us an emotional escape that de-prioritizes building relationships with physical neighbors. The advantages given to automobile travel started it, and the internet has accelerated it dramatically. I think the "freedom" to choose one's community is at the core of the complete lack of reasonable political discourse these days. It's very rare to see people calmly discussing issues with each other; they segregate themselves into their like-minded social groups, seeking validation for their preconceived notions rather than searching for the truth. When your barber who has been cutting your hair for 20 years expresses a view that you find surprising, you're going to tend to have a discussion with him about it, rather than shout at him and call him names. Each community, physical or virtual, has its own unique ideology. The difference between the physical and virtual is that physical ones must necessarily be inclusive, virtual ones are encouraged to be exclusive. Without getting too sidetracked, there is also the issue of the disconnect between seeing words on a screen and knowing deep in your subconscious that your dealing with a real person. Text on a screen is really difficult to anthropomorphize and sympathize with.
  - heed 16y ago
    I would argue that most communities are self-selected, virtual or not. >The difference between the physical and virtual is that physical ones must necessarily be inclusive, virtual ones are encouraged to be exclusive. It depends on the community. I don't see how physicality is the determining factor of what is inclusive or exclusive. Look at country clubs, or Hollywood. >Text on a screen is really difficult to anthropomorphize and sympathize with. Have you ever read a novel or story that moved you? Empathized with a fictional character? It is very possible to connect with text, you just have to be creative.
joshu 16y ago
I find the juxtaposition of your lament and the lack of your provided identity quite amusing.
- moron4hire 16y ago
  I could have (conceivably) created an account name "Steve Jobs" and posted under that, which is another way in which virtual social interaction fails people. I've had friends find out that someone had been impersonating them on MySpace. At least in physical interaction, I have to stay logically consistent with everything I've told people before. Online, I could be a new person every day.

jerf 16y ago

Our forebrains don't care. Our hindbrains do.

masterj 16y ago

>Whether the porch is physical or virtual isn't nearly as important as the actual sharing of ideas. That would be like saying that the only important part of sex is the exchanging of fluids. Yes, the internet is great, but it cannot replace a strong family or community.

heed 16y ago
For me, a physical presence isn't a requirement in order to have a strong relationship with someone. So in my case, it could very well work as a replacement.
lotharbot 16y ago
> "That would be like saying that the only important part of sex is the exchanging of fluids." It strikes me as like saying the important parts of sex are the physical sensations and emotional connection (regardless of where the fluids end up.) It's dead on. I have a strong family and a strong community, but much of it is online. I met my wife on the internet (in 1998, on a website devoted to our favorite video game); another friend from the same website was a groomsman at our wedding; we named our son after the website's founder. Members of our online community have organized prayer groups, attended weddings and funerals of other members, and helped each other in times of physical, emotional, or financial crisis. I personally have met with people from our community in Chicago, Vancouver, Kansas City, Seattle, Denver, Colorado Springs, Provo, and at a hog farm near Medford, Oregon. The important part of community is not that we can walk over to each others' houses. It's that we can share with each other, help each other, take joy in each others successes, give comfort in failure or tragedy, learn from each other, and treat one another as friends. Not every website can live up to this standard of "community". But mine has for the last twelve years.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]