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Show HN: Build a robot with the $9 C.H.I.P. Computer

130 points by johncole 10y ago

jnbiche 10y ago
Cool project, well done. I'd suggest that instead of instructing users to clone your Github project and then detailing how to adapt the RPi code to the CHIP computer, rather create a Github branch that has the CHIP-specific diffs, and link to that branch for users to clone instead of the original branch. That way, your tutorial is also more condensed (a good thing, imho).
- johncole 10y ago
  That's a GREAT idea. I think if this is popular, we'll do that, and include an install script to handle all the command line stuff we added in. I wrote this, just documenting what I was doing as I went along, but you're absolutely right, it could use a branch and install script.
- djaychela 10y ago
  Yes, I'd echo that. I teach for a living, and it's amazing the number of different ways people can come up with when interpreting what you think is a straightforward instruction. When I read the "delete lines ...." bit, it didn't seem completely explicit, and in addition, I'd think that alone would put a LOT of people off having a go. Much of this kind of thing is generating confidence in people, and if they fall at the first hurdle, it's game over; possibly for their entire lifetime if it happens at the wrong point!
iuguy 10y ago
This is a Raspberry Pi robot kit called GoPiGo[1]. And this is the biggest problem I've found with the C.H.I.P. - everything you do with the C.H.I.P. is something that can be done more easily on a Raspberry Pi. It's not an indictment of the C.H.I.P., which is a massive effort (although having played around a bit with two I'm sad to say it has too many problems for me to stick with), but more a testament to the Pi. [1] - https://github.com/DexterInd/GoPiGo https://github.com/DexterInd/GoPiGo
- wiradikusuma 10y ago
  could you elaborate more? i have few chips and pis in my drawer and just want to be prepared what's ahead.. some day..
  - maweki 10y ago
    I had problems with my C.H.I.P.s not booting fully when the power was not sufficient. They are very iffy that way. Also the WiFi is not great. The larger PIs, on the other hand, will boot from a potato battery but will corrupt your SD-card doing so. If you can get away with using a PI-Zero (100mA max draw), you should do so. You can basically use anything to power it.
    - johncole 10y ago
      You can hook this robot, the GoPiGo, up to a Raspberry Pi Zero as well: http://www.dexterindustries.com/projects/gopigo-raspberry-pi-zero/ http://www.dexterindustries.com/projects/gopigo-raspberry-pi... and a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZVe_N9Tbk&t=236s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZVe_N9Tbk&t=236s
  - iuguy 10y ago
    So I don't want to rag on something that had a huge amount of effort put into it, but... (and these buts apply to other systems as well as the C.H.I.P.) 1. The Allwinner chipset was a bad choice. It's non-free, flaky, underpowered (performs worse than a Pi Zero in my non-scientific tests so far). 2. The use of full fat Debian may contribute to 1. I think the AllWinner SBC is more suited to Android phones than general purpose SBC use, and using full fat Debian as a primary OS is potentially throwing away resources on things like a full fat libc. Yes there's Angstrom Linux as an option, but Angstrom's not really well maintained. Again, not limited to CHIP but definitely including it. 3. The PocketCHIP as interesting as it is, is a ballache compared to using a Pi Zero. For a Pi Zero I can install retropie and be up and running in under 10 mins. For PocketCHIP I have to hand configure each emulator, not all the debian packages work (weird segfaults and errors ahoy) and so on. Again, the PocketCHIP is not the only thing that experiences this, but once you've played Pico-8 for a bit, you start to realise that this is the only game in town for this platform unless you're willing to expend serious effort on work already done elsewhere. 4. The flash mechanism. Good god, where do I begin. Firmware flash updates require Chrome to be installed. That's right, the flash updater is a Chrome extension - a web browser extension. This is a ludicrous choice. A web browser is for browsing the web, not flashing firmware onto devices. There is an alternative route buried deep in the docs, but this is pretty convoluted. To flash the firmware in order to get hardware accelerated CPU support, I had to install chrome on my mac, fail several times thanks to the GUI interface clearing errors after they appear, try again with different combinations of USB hub, swear at the damned thing, then repeat the entire process on Windows. 5. I've alluded to this elsewhere, but the Debian build is broken in places. Various packages break because they don't take the architecture into account. Again, this isn't limited to the CHIP, but includes it. The bottom line is that a $9 computer has a lot of competition depending on target use. Against a Pi Zero it loses to the incredible Pi Ecosystem. Against a Beaglebone it loses to a completely open design. Against a ZSun Wifi reader or plenty of cheap WRT devices, it loses on performance because of the full fat libc and the tightly specialised nature of the underlying distro. At best (and without some serious work) the CHIP is destined to be a footnote amongst closed and partially broken Pi clones. At worst the PocketCHIP will be forgotten about in a couple of years. It's a shame, from a hardware perspective PocketCHIP has a lot of potential, being pretty hackable. Sure, the keyboard is terrible, the screen's pretty crappy and the peeling plastic is a nightmare, but it's got huge potential. I just don't see the resources there to bring it up to the same level as the Pi ecosystem. Again, this isn't just limited to the CHIP - we'll see the same thing with the Onion Omega2, we've seen this with the Pine64 and various Pi type devices. The fact that this post is about a port of a Pi-specific device sadly says more about CHIP's future than anything else.
captaindiego 10y ago
Does anyone have any experience running some sort of real-time OS on cheap hardware like this? Seems like more high speed control applications could maybe benefit from a really cheap platform to prototype on.
plaes 10y ago
I'll just put this here: https://github.com/laurivosandi/sumochip https://github.com/laurivosandi/sumochip
AstroJetson 10y ago
Love getting people into robotics. The problem is that this kit has two motors and some sensors that go into a car, for $199. Not much you can do other than drive or program the car. With starter kits like this one http://www.vexrobotics.com/starter-kit-with-controller.html http://www.vexrobotics.com/starter-kit-with-controller.html you get parts to build a number of different robots. Granted, it's $280, but the extra $80 gets you a lot more learning.
- johncole 10y ago
  Vex is great, I won't trash that platform. The GoPiGo has a lot more depth on programming, and has quite a few projects.
- panglott 10y ago
  Yep. A better title would be "Build a robot with a $9 CHIP computer and a $100 robotics kit" Still, this is a very useful tutorial on how to adapt a RaspPi robotics kit to the CHIP computer.
- pryelluw 10y ago
  Or buy a boe bot with an arduino. Its a proven platform built to last. Its around $150 for everything.
troygoode 10y ago
Awesome project John. Glad to see your company doing well and making cool stuff!
- johncole 10y ago
  Thank you Troy!
geppetto 10y ago
Really nice project! A side note on the chassis. It's similar - not the same - to the ones I've been using in high school classes for a few years. I've bought mine off amazon/ebay for 15$ and while they're good enough to get started they have several weak points: motors are undersized, power supply is too low for 5V boards, assembly is not so good with parts not fitting well. They're certainly not an example of good design. Unfortunately I couldn't find any better option in the sub 100$ range with two DC motors so I understand why OP chose something similar. Does anybody know of a better chassis for these kind of projets?
- protopete 10y ago
  I got this Arduino bot for $70. Has its own battery for sufficient power. The motor gearing is a bit fast, so it's better to use PWM to slow down the motors, except the default pinout disables PWM on the drive gpios when the servo is enabled. The build quality is ok, except there are no spacers for the bolts between the PCBs and acrylic base, so I worry about damaging the PCB during assembly. https://www.amazon.com/Elegoo-Four-wheel-Ultrasonic-Intelligent-Educational/dp/B01DPH0SWY https://www.amazon.com/Elegoo-Four-wheel-Ultrasonic-Intellig...
  - geppetto 10y ago
    Li-ion battery is much better but I don't need an Arduino board nor sensors - we've plenty of - and I don't get the 4 motors design... more problems and no particular gains. Al these kits and chassis look like a different mix of the same - not so good - parts.
- blister 10y ago
  Disclaimer up front: I have a significant interest in this company and product, so I'm definitely pimpin' my own sauces. :) With that said, we[0] build a product called MRK-1 which is a programmable autonomous robot built using a custom board we developed using similar technology to Arduino. Our kits are around $100, very simple to build an operate, and we have a sweet textbook written by some awesome guy named blister[1]. :D We're geared more towards selling to individual schools and school districts, but if you're interested, I can hook you up with a kit and a digital copy of the programming book. 0: http://sumorobotleague.com http://sumorobotleague.com 1: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Robot-Programming-Robots-MRK-1/dp/1523616083/ https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Robot-Programming-Robots...
baby 10y ago
I received two C.H.I.P last week, wanted to take that as an opportunity to learn as well as teach my girlfriend about this kind of stuff. I was looking for an easy project to start with, but couldn't find anything.

130 points by johncole 10y ago

Cool project, well done. I'd suggest that instead of instructing users to clone your Github project and then detailing how to adapt the RPi code to the CHIP computer, rather create a Github branch that has the CHIP-specific diffs, and link to that branch for users to clone instead of the original branch. That way, your tutorial is also more condensed (a good thing, imho).

johncole 10y ago
That's a GREAT idea. I think if this is popular, we'll do that, and include an install script to handle all the command line stuff we added in. I wrote this, just documenting what I was doing as I went along, but you're absolutely right, it could use a branch and install script.
djaychela 10y ago
Yes, I'd echo that. I teach for a living, and it's amazing the number of different ways people can come up with when interpreting what you think is a straightforward instruction. When I read the "delete lines ...." bit, it didn't seem completely explicit, and in addition, I'd think that alone would put a LOT of people off having a go. Much of this kind of thing is generating confidence in people, and if they fall at the first hurdle, it's game over; possibly for their entire lifetime if it happens at the wrong point!

iuguy 10y ago

This is a Raspberry Pi robot kit called GoPiGo[1]. And this is the biggest problem I've found with the C.H.I.P. - everything you do with the C.H.I.P. is something that can be done more easily on a Raspberry Pi. It's not an indictment of the C.H.I.P., which is a massive effort (although having played around a bit with two I'm sad to say it has too many problems for me to stick with), but more a testament to the Pi. [1] - https://github.com/DexterInd/GoPiGo https://github.com/DexterInd/GoPiGo

wiradikusuma 10y ago
could you elaborate more? i have few chips and pis in my drawer and just want to be prepared what's ahead.. some day..
- maweki 10y ago
  I had problems with my C.H.I.P.s not booting fully when the power was not sufficient. They are very iffy that way. Also the WiFi is not great. The larger PIs, on the other hand, will boot from a potato battery but will corrupt your SD-card doing so. If you can get away with using a PI-Zero (100mA max draw), you should do so. You can basically use anything to power it.
  - johncole 10y ago
    You can hook this robot, the GoPiGo, up to a Raspberry Pi Zero as well: http://www.dexterindustries.com/projects/gopigo-raspberry-pi-zero/ http://www.dexterindustries.com/projects/gopigo-raspberry-pi... and a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZVe_N9Tbk&t=236s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZVe_N9Tbk&t=236s
- iuguy 10y ago
  So I don't want to rag on something that had a huge amount of effort put into it, but... (and these buts apply to other systems as well as the C.H.I.P.) 1. The Allwinner chipset was a bad choice. It's non-free, flaky, underpowered (performs worse than a Pi Zero in my non-scientific tests so far). 2. The use of full fat Debian may contribute to 1. I think the AllWinner SBC is more suited to Android phones than general purpose SBC use, and using full fat Debian as a primary OS is potentially throwing away resources on things like a full fat libc. Yes there's Angstrom Linux as an option, but Angstrom's not really well maintained. Again, not limited to CHIP but definitely including it. 3. The PocketCHIP as interesting as it is, is a ballache compared to using a Pi Zero. For a Pi Zero I can install retropie and be up and running in under 10 mins. For PocketCHIP I have to hand configure each emulator, not all the debian packages work (weird segfaults and errors ahoy) and so on. Again, the PocketCHIP is not the only thing that experiences this, but once you've played Pico-8 for a bit, you start to realise that this is the only game in town for this platform unless you're willing to expend serious effort on work already done elsewhere. 4. The flash mechanism. Good god, where do I begin. Firmware flash updates require Chrome to be installed. That's right, the flash updater is a Chrome extension - a web browser extension. This is a ludicrous choice. A web browser is for browsing the web, not flashing firmware onto devices. There is an alternative route buried deep in the docs, but this is pretty convoluted. To flash the firmware in order to get hardware accelerated CPU support, I had to install chrome on my mac, fail several times thanks to the GUI interface clearing errors after they appear, try again with different combinations of USB hub, swear at the damned thing, then repeat the entire process on Windows. 5. I've alluded to this elsewhere, but the Debian build is broken in places. Various packages break because they don't take the architecture into account. Again, this isn't limited to the CHIP, but includes it. The bottom line is that a $9 computer has a lot of competition depending on target use. Against a Pi Zero it loses to the incredible Pi Ecosystem. Against a Beaglebone it loses to a completely open design. Against a ZSun Wifi reader or plenty of cheap WRT devices, it loses on performance because of the full fat libc and the tightly specialised nature of the underlying distro. At best (and without some serious work) the CHIP is destined to be a footnote amongst closed and partially broken Pi clones. At worst the PocketCHIP will be forgotten about in a couple of years. It's a shame, from a hardware perspective PocketCHIP has a lot of potential, being pretty hackable. Sure, the keyboard is terrible, the screen's pretty crappy and the peeling plastic is a nightmare, but it's got huge potential. I just don't see the resources there to bring it up to the same level as the Pi ecosystem. Again, this isn't just limited to the CHIP - we'll see the same thing with the Onion Omega2, we've seen this with the Pine64 and various Pi type devices. The fact that this post is about a port of a Pi-specific device sadly says more about CHIP's future than anything else.

captaindiego 10y ago

Does anyone have any experience running some sort of real-time OS on cheap hardware like this? Seems like more high speed control applications could maybe benefit from a really cheap platform to prototype on.

plaes 10y ago

I'll just put this here: https://github.com/laurivosandi/sumochip https://github.com/laurivosandi/sumochip

AstroJetson 10y ago

Love getting people into robotics. The problem is that this kit has two motors and some sensors that go into a car, for $199. Not much you can do other than drive or program the car. With starter kits like this one http://www.vexrobotics.com/starter-kit-with-controller.html http://www.vexrobotics.com/starter-kit-with-controller.html you get parts to build a number of different robots. Granted, it's $280, but the extra $80 gets you a lot more learning.

johncole 10y ago
Vex is great, I won't trash that platform. The GoPiGo has a lot more depth on programming, and has quite a few projects.
panglott 10y ago
Yep. A better title would be "Build a robot with a $9 CHIP computer and a $100 robotics kit" Still, this is a very useful tutorial on how to adapt a RaspPi robotics kit to the CHIP computer.
pryelluw 10y ago
Or buy a boe bot with an arduino. Its a proven platform built to last. Its around $150 for everything.

troygoode 10y ago

Awesome project John. Glad to see your company doing well and making cool stuff!

johncole 10y ago
Thank you Troy!

geppetto 10y ago

Really nice project! A side note on the chassis. It's similar - not the same - to the ones I've been using in high school classes for a few years. I've bought mine off amazon/ebay for 15$ and while they're good enough to get started they have several weak points: motors are undersized, power supply is too low for 5V boards, assembly is not so good with parts not fitting well. They're certainly not an example of good design. Unfortunately I couldn't find any better option in the sub 100$ range with two DC motors so I understand why OP chose something similar. Does anybody know of a better chassis for these kind of projets?

protopete 10y ago
I got this Arduino bot for $70. Has its own battery for sufficient power. The motor gearing is a bit fast, so it's better to use PWM to slow down the motors, except the default pinout disables PWM on the drive gpios when the servo is enabled. The build quality is ok, except there are no spacers for the bolts between the PCBs and acrylic base, so I worry about damaging the PCB during assembly. https://www.amazon.com/Elegoo-Four-wheel-Ultrasonic-Intelligent-Educational/dp/B01DPH0SWY https://www.amazon.com/Elegoo-Four-wheel-Ultrasonic-Intellig...
- geppetto 10y ago
  Li-ion battery is much better but I don't need an Arduino board nor sensors - we've plenty of - and I don't get the 4 motors design... more problems and no particular gains. Al these kits and chassis look like a different mix of the same - not so good - parts.
blister 10y ago
Disclaimer up front: I have a significant interest in this company and product, so I'm definitely pimpin' my own sauces. :) With that said, we[0] build a product called MRK-1 which is a programmable autonomous robot built using a custom board we developed using similar technology to Arduino. Our kits are around $100, very simple to build an operate, and we have a sweet textbook written by some awesome guy named blister[1]. :D We're geared more towards selling to individual schools and school districts, but if you're interested, I can hook you up with a kit and a digital copy of the programming book. 0: http://sumorobotleague.com http://sumorobotleague.com 1: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Robot-Programming-Robots-MRK-1/dp/1523616083/ https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Robot-Programming-Robots...

baby 10y ago

I received two C.H.I.P last week, wanted to take that as an opportunity to learn as well as teach my girlfriend about this kind of stuff. I was looking for an easy project to start with, but couldn't find anything.