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Anyone here remember "Rails is a Ghetto"? http://web.archive.org/web/20080103072111/http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html http://web.archive.org/w

• rtpg 10y ago
  Python3 is seeing poor adoption because for 5 years it was extremely hard to port existing code to Python 3. But there's been a lot of effort to fix this, and now the tools are in place to make porting easier. Since those tools are in place, pretty much every major Python lib has Python3 support. Many minor libs as well, though it's easy to have one or two dependencies missing it if your project is big enough. Application developers (overwhelming majority of Python users) had to wait for the libraries to get over to Python 3. This has basically happened, so a lot of application developers are now porting. Python 3's rollout was awfully managed, but the community has learned its lesson, and is working hard to fix things. ---- Another issue with this article is that its recommendations simply won't work. - If you try to make "text + bytes" work, you are letting people write code that will fail. You can't implicitly convert bytes to text. You have to know the encoding! Python 2's mechanism (system locale-implicit conversion) guarantees bugs in situations with multiple encodings floating about. - Running Python 2 libs in Python 3 would mean that "text + bytes" style failures in the Python 2 code would bubble into Python 3, destroying all assurances you're supposed to have in Python 3.
  • saurik 10y ago
    > Application developers (overwhelming majority of Python users) had to wait for the libraries to get over to Python 3. And, in the mean time, they were stuck with a language ecosystem which entirely stagnated; while there are some benefits to working with a "stale" language, this was even worse: it isn't like "the C language is no longer going to change, but gcc gets better every year, with better error messages and faster compilation and improved code generation", but "the developers of Python have decided to spend years working on something which you can't port to yet because you are blocked on libraries and libraries are blocked on tooling and language fixes, and in the mean time have gotten pretty damned hostile towards users of Python 2 and constantly claim that whatever the most recent release of 2.7 is is going to be the last one ever so people had better start moving"... and a lot of the people I knew who had been using Python have thereby moved alright, but they moved to Go, Rust, Clojure, or Elixir, and they aren't coming back to Python given that the language is really only slightly better than it was five years ago while these other languages have been going in really interesting places. And yes: there are some people using Python 3 now, but interestingly it seems to be an entirely different group of people, such as data scientists, than the people who were using Python 2: when was the last time you heard about a big website being developed using Python? You don't: that era ended when Python 3000 was announced.
    • rtpg 10y ago
      There are loads of websites that get developed in Python. Django has gotten more and more popular every release. I work in a Python shop, and getting to Python 3 was something we've always wanted to do (and did! Recently) Language communities evolve. Guido is working on a static type checker. Python 3k transition was bad, but I haven't really met many people who are against the current state of the language. Re litigating the transition over and over doesn't accomplish much. Everyone knows how bad it was now