4 ms·

I didn't know Zed Shaw was that stupid. Or is he just trolling?

by smegel 10y ago

tschellenbach 10y ago
After 8 years the man has a point, most of his arguments are not correct though. Conclusion stands, python is shooting itself in the foot.
- guntars 10y ago
  Can the conclusion stand if the arguments are not correct? I'm sure there are other, better arguments out there, but after reading this from top to bottom I'm getting the idea that the resistance to Python 3 is mostly irrational.
  - adambrenecki 10y ago
    > Can the conclusion stand if the arguments are not correct? It can; arguing it can't would be an 'argument from fallacy', itself a fallacy. Put another way, I can make up a totally absurd, incorrect argument that the sky is blue, but the sky is still blue. I can also make up a totally absurd, incorrect argument that the sky is green, but it isn't. An argument that doesn't hold water doesn't say anything useful about the conclusion either way.
    - AstralStorm 10y ago
      That said, the conclusion is still false, given how many projects have since converted to or supported Python 3. And a bunch are Python 3 only.
- JBReefer 10y ago
  I don't know how much it is Python shooting itself in the foot, I wonder if it's not a management issue. Though he may be stubborn, I can't see the 2 v 3 split happening under Rob Pike - I think this is fundamentally a Guido problem. If Guido had said "2 is done. Deal with it, fuck you." a long time ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. Breaking language changes are nothing new, but mgmt this weak is. Hell, I primarily work in C# and I LOVE the breaking changes of .NET Core and Standard. They tore the garbage out, and it runs on Linux. Awesome!
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    The vast majority of C# projects are not .NET Core but using the old, backwards-compatible stuff. And it's kind of nice that you can have that huge back catalogue of stuff even as you use the latest C# features.
bhrgunatha 10y ago
He's well known for his hyperbole and ranting but he's also intelligent and usually able to back up his claims with some kind of argument. There are so many clearly false claims in this piece though I assume it's just trolling. As I mentioned in another thread the OED's word of the year is post-truth. Zed is clearly a modern man.
dragonwriter 10y ago
Zed Shaw is not stupid, but has a history of hyperbolic negativity that is, at times, difficult to distinguish from trolling even if it may not actually be intended as trolling.

I didn't know Zed Shaw was that stupid. Or is he just trolling?

by smegel 10y ago

I didn't know Zed Shaw was that stupid. Or is he just trolling?

After 8 years the man has a point, most of his arguments are not correct though. Conclusion stands, python is shooting itself in the foot.

guntars 10y ago
Can the conclusion stand if the arguments are not correct? I'm sure there are other, better arguments out there, but after reading this from top to bottom I'm getting the idea that the resistance to Python 3 is mostly irrational.
- adambrenecki 10y ago
  > Can the conclusion stand if the arguments are not correct? It can; arguing it can't would be an 'argument from fallacy', itself a fallacy. Put another way, I can make up a totally absurd, incorrect argument that the sky is blue, but the sky is still blue. I can also make up a totally absurd, incorrect argument that the sky is green, but it isn't. An argument that doesn't hold water doesn't say anything useful about the conclusion either way.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    That said, the conclusion is still false, given how many projects have since converted to or supported Python 3. And a bunch are Python 3 only.
JBReefer 10y ago
I don't know how much it is Python shooting itself in the foot, I wonder if it's not a management issue. Though he may be stubborn, I can't see the 2 v 3 split happening under Rob Pike - I think this is fundamentally a Guido problem. If Guido had said "2 is done. Deal with it, fuck you." a long time ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. Breaking language changes are nothing new, but mgmt this weak is. Hell, I primarily work in C# and I LOVE the breaking changes of .NET Core and Standard. They tore the garbage out, and it runs on Linux. Awesome!
- emodendroket 10y ago
  The vast majority of C# projects are not .NET Core but using the old, backwards-compatible stuff. And it's kind of nice that you can have that huge back catalogue of stuff even as you use the latest C# features.

bhrgunatha 10y ago

He's well known for his hyperbole and ranting but he's also intelligent and usually able to back up his claims with some kind of argument. There are so many clearly false claims in this piece though I assume it's just trolling. As I mentioned in another thread the OED's word of the year is post-truth. Zed is clearly a modern man.

dragonwriter 10y ago

Zed Shaw is not stupid, but has a history of hyperbolic negativity that is, at times, difficult to distinguish from trolling even if it may not actually be intended as trolling.