Like I said, Java has its pain points but Java's pain points are both being drastically improved on with time (java.time anyone?) and was never as bad (in my op

Like I said, Java has its pain points but Java's pain points are both being drastically improved on with time (java.time anyone?) and was never as bad (in my opinion) as C++. My main point is that Java has stood the test of time without becoming as bad as C++. I'm not impressed by "classes, methods, interfaces in abundance, class hierarchies and factories." I find Java a joy to program in because I can just Get Shit Done™ and things do what I expect them to do. In my old age I just want to get shit done, challenging myself is no longer very appealing. That's a personal preference though. There was a time that wasn't the case. Obviously managed code is not for every application but its good enough for most. I am eternally grateful for C++ programmers for the applications where C++ (or other lower level languages) are needed because I wouldn't want to be doing that. I think C++ programmers, as a group, are so used to C++ idiosyncrasies that they don't see them as idiosyncrasies. That goes for any group though. For what its worth my first language was C++ but C++ always "astonished" me. (I've never had a problem with boxing and unboxing. Java has had autoboxing for a really long time so those days of manual boxing/unboxing are ancient history)