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Herodotus is called the "Father of History" because he is believed to be the first to have systematically collected and critically evaluated various sources to

by dghf 10y ago

Herodotus is called the "Father of History" because he is believed to be the first to have systematically collected and critically evaluated various sources to produce his narrative. The OP argues that Sima Qian deserves the same title for the same reasons. Did the Mayans employ the same approach when writing their history? If so, your point is a good one.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Probably not. Mostly just dry names, dates and events are recorded in stone stelae. Kind of like how history was taught when I was in school. And since missionaries collected and burned almost the entire corpus of 'degenerate' Mayan literature, we may never know more.
EthanHeilman 10y ago
Among Historians Herodotus is also called the "Father of Lies" for some of the stories he reported that were then passed on as facts all the way to the medieval era. My favorite Herodotus fact is the large fuzzy gold digging ants[0] who dig up gold and attack anyone steals it: >In this sandy desert are ants, not as big as dogs but bigger than foxes [..]. These ants live underground, digging out the sand in the same way as the ants in Greece, to which they are very similar in shape, and the sand which they carry from the holes is full of gold. [..] So when the Indians come to the place with their sacks, they fill these with the sand and drive back as fast as possible; for the ants at once scent them out, the Persians say, and give chase. They say nothing is equal to them for speed, so that unless the Indians have a headstart while the ants were gathering, not one of them would get away. - Histories, Book 3 [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-digging_ant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-digging_ant [1]: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D3%3Achapter%3D102 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...
- deleted 10y ago
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- Amezarak 10y ago
  I had long ignored Herodotus because of that epithet, and I think it was a huge mistake. After reading him I was very surprised about how accurate he was in general. He also says where he got information, and presents different reports where they are available, and frequently expresses skepticism about some of the stories. Additionally, even the crazy-sounding stories are often rooted in some kind of truth: the Wikipedia article about the gold-digging ants claims there is a local tribe that did in fact collect gold dust from marmot burrows. One item that struck me was that in the Egyptian chapters, he reports that cats (then a curiosity to the Greeks) would leap into fires and burn to death; a footnote in my edition made some comment about the absurdity of his claims about cats and this in particular. But the reason it struck me is because my ex-girlfriend had a cat who exhibited exactly that behavior. It made me wonder if Herodotus mistook a singular anecdote for a generality, or if there was some kind of bizarre instinct in at least some breeds of cats in history that did indeed lead them to do that.
  - EthanHeilman 10y ago
    >I had long ignored Herodotus because of that epithet On the other hand, fuzzy ants were one of the reasons I've read Herodotus. The problem is not so much with Herodotus himself but with the uncritical use of his writings due to his authority. The lesson is not to ignore Herodotus but that even great historians make mistakes or use bad/mistranslated sources.
- smacktoward 10y ago
  I always liked Kate Beaton's take on Herodotus, myself: http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=30 http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=30

by dghf 10y ago

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Probably not. Mostly just dry names, dates and events are recorded in stone stelae. Kind of like how history was taught when I was in school. And since missionaries collected and burned almost the entire corpus of 'degenerate' Mayan literature, we may never know more.

EthanHeilman 10y ago

Among Historians Herodotus is also called the "Father of Lies" for some of the stories he reported that were then passed on as facts all the way to the medieval era. My favorite Herodotus fact is the large fuzzy gold digging ants[0] who dig up gold and attack anyone steals it: >In this sandy desert are ants, not as big as dogs but bigger than foxes [..]. These ants live underground, digging out the sand in the same way as the ants in Greece, to which they are very similar in shape, and the sand which they carry from the holes is full of gold. [..] So when the Indians come to the place with their sacks, they fill these with the sand and drive back as fast as possible; for the ants at once scent them out, the Persians say, and give chase. They say nothing is equal to them for speed, so that unless the Indians have a headstart while the ants were gathering, not one of them would get away. - Histories, Book 3 [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-digging_ant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-digging_ant [1]: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D3%3Achapter%3D102 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Amezarak 10y ago
I had long ignored Herodotus because of that epithet, and I think it was a huge mistake. After reading him I was very surprised about how accurate he was in general. He also says where he got information, and presents different reports where they are available, and frequently expresses skepticism about some of the stories. Additionally, even the crazy-sounding stories are often rooted in some kind of truth: the Wikipedia article about the gold-digging ants claims there is a local tribe that did in fact collect gold dust from marmot burrows. One item that struck me was that in the Egyptian chapters, he reports that cats (then a curiosity to the Greeks) would leap into fires and burn to death; a footnote in my edition made some comment about the absurdity of his claims about cats and this in particular. But the reason it struck me is because my ex-girlfriend had a cat who exhibited exactly that behavior. It made me wonder if Herodotus mistook a singular anecdote for a generality, or if there was some kind of bizarre instinct in at least some breeds of cats in history that did indeed lead them to do that.
- EthanHeilman 10y ago
  >I had long ignored Herodotus because of that epithet On the other hand, fuzzy ants were one of the reasons I've read Herodotus. The problem is not so much with Herodotus himself but with the uncritical use of his writings due to his authority. The lesson is not to ignore Herodotus but that even great historians make mistakes or use bad/mistranslated sources.
smacktoward 10y ago
I always liked Kate Beaton's take on Herodotus, myself: http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=30 http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=30