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I'm sure this will get down voted into oblivion. I respect the passion of climbing, I really do. However, I never agreed with drilling holes, and placing bolts,

I'm sure this will get down voted into oblivion. I respect the passion of climbing, I really do. However, I never agreed with drilling holes, and placing bolts, in all of these amazing natural structures. Just another thing we have to ruin for human enjoyment :(

doytch 10y ago
Just FYI, the Clean Climbing movement that really picked up in the 70s has done a lot to try and minimize or avoid damage to rock. Just saying that as someone who doesn't climb, who didn't know about this (and nuts vs pitons) until I was bored and browsing the book store once. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_climbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_climbing
buzzdenver 10y ago
Not sure there are enough people on HN who are so much into climbing that they'd downvote you. But it's pointless to have a trad vs sport argument or the tenmillionth time, especially here.
wlll 10y ago
Ruined is a little strong. It's not like you can see the bolts unless you're up-close and personal with them, like for instance if you're climbing.
- takk309 10y ago
  Sometimes it is easy to miss them while climbing!
un-devmox 10y ago
For those interested in the bolt or not to bolt debate, the Dawn Wall has always been at the epicenter of this controversy. When Warren Harding and Dean Caldwell did the first ascent they placed many bolts (most were tiny brittle aluminum dowels). Later, Royal Robbins and Don Lauria, made the 2nd ascent with the intention of removing those bolts. But they stopped removing the bolts as the beauty of the climb became apparent. IMO, as someone who has climbed in the Valley for more than 25 years and has always been a traditionalist, drilled bolts have there place in climbing. It would be hard to convince me that bolts on El Cap or any where else in the Valley have 'ruined' the massif.
- module0000 10y ago
  I get the bolts-are-good and bolts-are-bad side of the argument. When I see them, they remind me of survey markers...you only notice them when they are relevant to what you are doing, and they remind me that someone "was here".

doytch 10y ago

Just FYI, the Clean Climbing movement that really picked up in the 70s has done a lot to try and minimize or avoid damage to rock. Just saying that as someone who doesn't climb, who didn't know about this (and nuts vs pitons) until I was bored and browsing the book store once. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_climbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_climbing

buzzdenver 10y ago

Not sure there are enough people on HN who are so much into climbing that they'd downvote you. But it's pointless to have a trad vs sport argument or the tenmillionth time, especially here.

wlll 10y ago

Ruined is a little strong. It's not like you can see the bolts unless you're up-close and personal with them, like for instance if you're climbing.

takk309 10y ago
Sometimes it is easy to miss them while climbing!

un-devmox 10y ago

For those interested in the bolt or not to bolt debate, the Dawn Wall has always been at the epicenter of this controversy. When Warren Harding and Dean Caldwell did the first ascent they placed many bolts (most were tiny brittle aluminum dowels). Later, Royal Robbins and Don Lauria, made the 2nd ascent with the intention of removing those bolts. But they stopped removing the bolts as the beauty of the climb became apparent. IMO, as someone who has climbed in the Valley for more than 25 years and has always been a traditionalist, drilled bolts have there place in climbing. It would be hard to convince me that bolts on El Cap or any where else in the Valley have 'ruined' the massif.

module0000 10y ago
I get the bolts-are-good and bolts-are-bad side of the argument. When I see them, they remind me of survey markers...you only notice them when they are relevant to what you are doing, and they remind me that someone "was here".