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How: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4zuO1XSxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4zuO1XSxQ Who: Aside from Yosemite, the answer is "it depends", a lot of the

by avar 10y ago

How: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4zuO1XSxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4zuO1XSxQ Who: Aside from Yosemite, the answer is "it depends", a lot of these are just set up by enterprising enthusiasts, often technically illegally, but few care enough to bother them. In some parks & locations they're set up by whoever manages the park / owns the area to attract climbers & the business that comes with it. Some people in the mountaineering / climbing community don't like them since they leave a permanent trace ("take only photos, leave only footprints"), and prefer to use removable versions of these for just the duration of the climb.

jdietrich 10y ago
Dislike is something of an understatement. For many decades, there has been a tit-for-tat war between sport and trad climbers. Sport climbers bolt a route, then trad climbers come along with bolt croppers and remove the protection. In many areas, bolting is carried out under cover of darkness, for fear of violent confrontation with traditionalists. The Dawn Wall has been a significant battleground in this war. The first ascent was made by Harding and Caldwell in 1970 using bolts and significant aid climbing; A year later, Royal Robbins made the second ascent, chopping off the bolts as he went.
- spuz 10y ago
  I think that's overblowing it. 99.9% of the time, trad climbers and sport climbers and their respective ethics coexist peacefully. There are rock climbing areas that are better suited to trad and areas that are suited to sport, and most of the time those areas are pretty well agreed upon. There are also areas (such as Yosemite) where a mixture of removable gear and permanent gear is most appropriate and in those cases, the general rule of 'removable gear where possible, fixed gear where necessary' is also well agreed upon. What you're talking about with Harding and Robbins on the Dawn Wall is a clash of ethics that is long in the past. Very few people consider it worthwhile hammering pitons into a slice of blank rock in order to ascend it and aid climbing in itself is less popular with respect to free climbing.
- JadeNB 10y ago
  > A year later, Royal Robbins made the second ascent, chopping off the bolts as he went. un-devmox said that Royal Robbins stopped (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13015150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13015150), and Wikipedia agrees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Robbins#Dawn_Wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Robbins#Dawn_Wall). (Technically, I guess neither of those contradicts what you said.)

by avar 10y ago

jdietrich 10y ago

Dislike is something of an understatement. For many decades, there has been a tit-for-tat war between sport and trad climbers. Sport climbers bolt a route, then trad climbers come along with bolt croppers and remove the protection. In many areas, bolting is carried out under cover of darkness, for fear of violent confrontation with traditionalists. The Dawn Wall has been a significant battleground in this war. The first ascent was made by Harding and Caldwell in 1970 using bolts and significant aid climbing; A year later, Royal Robbins made the second ascent, chopping off the bolts as he went.

spuz 10y ago
I think that's overblowing it. 99.9% of the time, trad climbers and sport climbers and their respective ethics coexist peacefully. There are rock climbing areas that are better suited to trad and areas that are suited to sport, and most of the time those areas are pretty well agreed upon. There are also areas (such as Yosemite) where a mixture of removable gear and permanent gear is most appropriate and in those cases, the general rule of 'removable gear where possible, fixed gear where necessary' is also well agreed upon. What you're talking about with Harding and Robbins on the Dawn Wall is a clash of ethics that is long in the past. Very few people consider it worthwhile hammering pitons into a slice of blank rock in order to ascend it and aid climbing in itself is less popular with respect to free climbing.
JadeNB 10y ago
> A year later, Royal Robbins made the second ascent, chopping off the bolts as he went. un-devmox said that Royal Robbins stopped (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13015150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13015150), and Wikipedia agrees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Robbins#Dawn_Wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Robbins#Dawn_Wall). (Technically, I guess neither of those contradicts what you said.)