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This move has been made a while ago by arch and didn't seem to cause any trouble. On the other hand, it does not change much compared to the revolution of adop

This move has been made a while ago by arch and didn't seem to cause any trouble. On the other hand, it does not change much compared to the revolution of adopting the gobolinux filesystem that has been proposed more than 10 years ago. [1] [1]: http://gobolinux.org/index.php?page=at_a_glance http://gobolinux.org/index.php?page=at_a_glance http://gobolinux.org/index.php?page=doc/articles/clueless http://gobolinux.org/index.php?page=doc/articles/clueless

asymmetric 10y ago
Interesting, I didn't know about GoboLinux, but it reminded me of Nix. Here's a comparison: http://sandervanderburg.blogspot.nl/2011/12/evaluation-and-comparison-of-gobolinux.html http://sandervanderburg.blogspot.nl/2011/12/evaluation-and-c...
- Iv 10y ago
  I did not know about Gobo either. Why isn't everyone using it yet? Directories as packages, multi-versioning made easy... Use it now!
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Dunno. Maybe because it is largely made out of shell scripts and symlinks, and not laden with buzzwords?
  - nkuttler 10y ago
    The "how can this possibly work" section shows the problem: System libraries are links to app directories. Basically, you end up bundling the same libs over and over again in your applications. Just imagine having several identical copies of gtk, qt, webkit, etc.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Not quite. As long as multiple programs use the same lib version, you only install it once just as with RPM or DEB. but if another program needs a older or newer version you can install that version in parallel without it disturbing the rest.
      - nkuttler 10y ago
        If you can't distribute individual directories/packages as stand-alone apps this entire exercise seems pointless, it just becomes a fancy filesystem hierarchy.
        digi_owl 10y ago
        Ah ok, now i get it. You are stuck thinking devops and containers...
        Iv 10y ago
        Wait, neither debian nor ubuntu distribute packages as stand alone app. They distribute it without their libs and add a layer of dependency management (I did not look into Gobo's but I guess it is similar though apparently more permissive) And I don't see either what prevents one to distribute an application as standalone by stuffing all the libs needed in the application directory.
        nkuttler 10y ago
        That's my point, you don't gain anything except a different directory structure. And if you stuff everything into one directory, size.
  - Filligree 10y ago
    Maybe because it's not ambitious enough? Nix (and NixOS) does most of the same things, and then some, achieving more of the potential benefits. If you're going to break compatibility anyway, you might as well do it in a big way. A 2x improvement isn't enough to be worth the cost. 10x might be.
    - Iv 10y ago
      They don't break the compatibility. The old hierarchy is still there.
  - ufo 10y ago
    I think one of the problems is that is a source-based distribution, which is a pretty niche thing nowadays.
    - Iv 10y ago
      I am more wondering about the filesystem organization than the distribution itself.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Interestingly both started roughly around the same time (though i only started hearing about Nix in the last few years). Note though that Gobolinux is largely constructed from shell scripts. Also, since this comparison was made Gobolinux replace /System/Links with /system/Index. The latter is more like the classic FHS, and came about because of various issues during software compiles (iirc). Oh, one potentially interesting tidbit about Gobolinux history is that it apparently started out as one guy's way to manage compiles stored in his user directory on a university server. Sadly since the move to /System/Index the tool for bootstrapping such an environment, Rootless, has been nonfunctional.
TheSwordsman 10y ago
All of my Arch Linux nodes ate-shit when I did this upgrade years ago. Things didn't like when their shared libraries got moved. I had to manually recover every single one. It was actually the straw that broke the camel's back for me as an Arch user. This was around the time Arch Linux was going through lots of breaking changes.
- gnarbarian 10y ago
  It's what happens with any rolling release distro given enough time. We thought it would solve the problem of having to upgrade the OS and migrate every few years but it didn't really. Now we have docker. Probably not solved until we write all our applications as some sort of crazy monad to minimize maintenance pain. I think docker is a meaningful step toward that.
  - toyg 10y ago
    > until we write all our applications as some sort of crazy monad Desktop Linux seems to be finally moving towards self-contained formats like AppImage and Flatpak. They are clearly not oriented towards server apps, but who knows.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - lisivka 10y ago
      OMG. Self contained apps were there starting from Linux 0.1. They are reinvented every second year.
      - toyg 10y ago
        Yeah but they never got traction for this or that reason. This time it looks like several big players actually agree on a common way forward. I guess time will tell.
  - c3833174 10y ago
vacri 10y ago
Ironic that a website proposing a cleaned-up version of the linux filesystem has 'garbage' in the URL index.php?page=at_a_glance index.php?page=doc/articles/clueless
- laumars 10y ago
  I bet some of the advocates have messy desks too but that doesn't make it any more ironic and your URL point.
  - vacri 10y ago
    My URL point a whole coca-cola bottle?
corv 10y ago
Using the filesystem as a package database just makes too much sense.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Yep, lets wrap it in multiple layers of daemons and kernel special sauce.

asymmetric 10y ago

Interesting, I didn't know about GoboLinux, but it reminded me of Nix. Here's a comparison: http://sandervanderburg.blogspot.nl/2011/12/evaluation-and-comparison-of-gobolinux.html http://sandervanderburg.blogspot.nl/2011/12/evaluation-and-c...

Iv 10y ago
I did not know about Gobo either. Why isn't everyone using it yet? Directories as packages, multi-versioning made easy... Use it now!
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Dunno. Maybe because it is largely made out of shell scripts and symlinks, and not laden with buzzwords?
- nkuttler 10y ago
  The "how can this possibly work" section shows the problem: System libraries are links to app directories. Basically, you end up bundling the same libs over and over again in your applications. Just imagine having several identical copies of gtk, qt, webkit, etc.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Not quite. As long as multiple programs use the same lib version, you only install it once just as with RPM or DEB. but if another program needs a older or newer version you can install that version in parallel without it disturbing the rest.
    - nkuttler 10y ago
      If you can't distribute individual directories/packages as stand-alone apps this entire exercise seems pointless, it just becomes a fancy filesystem hierarchy.
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        Ah ok, now i get it. You are stuck thinking devops and containers...
      - Iv 10y ago
        Wait, neither debian nor ubuntu distribute packages as stand alone app. They distribute it without their libs and add a layer of dependency management (I did not look into Gobo's but I guess it is similar though apparently more permissive) And I don't see either what prevents one to distribute an application as standalone by stuffing all the libs needed in the application directory.
        nkuttler 10y ago
        That's my point, you don't gain anything except a different directory structure. And if you stuff everything into one directory, size.
- Filligree 10y ago
  Maybe because it's not ambitious enough? Nix (and NixOS) does most of the same things, and then some, achieving more of the potential benefits. If you're going to break compatibility anyway, you might as well do it in a big way. A 2x improvement isn't enough to be worth the cost. 10x might be.
  - Iv 10y ago
    They don't break the compatibility. The old hierarchy is still there.
- ufo 10y ago
  I think one of the problems is that is a source-based distribution, which is a pretty niche thing nowadays.
  - Iv 10y ago
    I am more wondering about the filesystem organization than the distribution itself.
digi_owl 10y ago
Interestingly both started roughly around the same time (though i only started hearing about Nix in the last few years). Note though that Gobolinux is largely constructed from shell scripts. Also, since this comparison was made Gobolinux replace /System/Links with /system/Index. The latter is more like the classic FHS, and came about because of various issues during software compiles (iirc). Oh, one potentially interesting tidbit about Gobolinux history is that it apparently started out as one guy's way to manage compiles stored in his user directory on a university server. Sadly since the move to /System/Index the tool for bootstrapping such an environment, Rootless, has been nonfunctional.

TheSwordsman 10y ago

All of my Arch Linux nodes ate-shit when I did this upgrade years ago. Things didn't like when their shared libraries got moved. I had to manually recover every single one. It was actually the straw that broke the camel's back for me as an Arch user. This was around the time Arch Linux was going through lots of breaking changes.

gnarbarian 10y ago
It's what happens with any rolling release distro given enough time. We thought it would solve the problem of having to upgrade the OS and migrate every few years but it didn't really. Now we have docker. Probably not solved until we write all our applications as some sort of crazy monad to minimize maintenance pain. I think docker is a meaningful step toward that.
- toyg 10y ago
  > until we write all our applications as some sort of crazy monad Desktop Linux seems to be finally moving towards self-contained formats like AppImage and Flatpak. They are clearly not oriented towards server apps, but who knows.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - lisivka 10y ago
    OMG. Self contained apps were there starting from Linux 0.1. They are reinvented every second year.
    - toyg 10y ago
      Yeah but they never got traction for this or that reason. This time it looks like several big players actually agree on a common way forward. I guess time will tell.
- c3833174 10y ago

vacri 10y ago

Ironic that a website proposing a cleaned-up version of the linux filesystem has 'garbage' in the URL index.php?page=at_a_glance index.php?page=doc/articles/clueless

laumars 10y ago
I bet some of the advocates have messy desks too but that doesn't make it any more ironic and your URL point.
- vacri 10y ago
  My URL point a whole coca-cola bottle?

corv 10y ago

Using the filesystem as a package database just makes too much sense.

digi_owl 10y ago
Yep, lets wrap it in multiple layers of daemons and kernel special sauce.