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>If you knowingly post and spread damaging fake information (deliberately engineered to accuse people of child molestation) on the internet[...] What you're mi

>If you knowingly post and spread damaging fake information (deliberately engineered to accuse people of child molestation) on the internet[...] What you're missing here is that they genuinely believe it to be true. As incredible as that may seem to you and me, that is the reality of it. I've actually been lurking in r/pizzagate since the start, watching in horror and fascination as people convince themselves of the most outrageous things. But they're convincing themselves, and they do actually believe.

mckoss 10y ago
Libel does not require that the writer knows what he is saying is false (though doing so will increase the amount of damages you can collect). You can successfully sue for libel by only showing that the statements made against you were false, and that you were damaged by them.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  That...depends. In the U.S., under federal constitutional case law, if the matter either concerns a public figure or a matter of public concern, actual malice (knowing falsity or reckless disregard for the truth) is required. The issue here would seem likely to meet the standard for public concern.
defgeneric 10y ago
Can confirm they really do believe. I've also been a lurker, and I thought it was a joke at the start--and it probably was--but watching it bootstrap itself was fascinating.
- 75j 10y ago
  I have also been amused by all the delusional assertions on 4chan and r/pizzagate, and I feel sorry for anyone innocent caught up in this, but this whole thing would have never caught on if there weren't real connections between the Clintons and child sex offenders. Bill Clinton really did ride on a child sex trafficker's private jet 26 times, and really went to his private island where underage girls have alleged that they were enslaved. It's also true that underaged-sexter Anthony Weiner's computer had all of Clinton's emails on it. It's true that the Podestas are close friends with Dennis Hastert and Tony mentioned post-conviction that he's "stayed in touch with denny Hastert [...] all these years". It's true that Hillary and Cheryl Mills emailed repeatedly back and forth about child trafficker Laura Silsby, with Mills referring to her only as "Laura", and that Bill Clinton traveled to Haiti and brokered a short prison term for Silsby and the release of the other "missionaries" involved. So, while "pizzagate" in itself may be totally false, rumors like this would not exist if the US did not consistently invite human garbage into its highest political office.
  - hokkos 10y ago
    Speaking of Epstein and human garbage, I wonder why The_Donald, /pol/, never talk about what Trump has to say about Epstein : http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/ : Epstein likes to tell people that he's a loner, a man who's never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
    - 75j 10y ago
      Yes, it's a sad time to be an American. For those that don't know, Trump has been sued over allegations of raping a 13 year old girl who worked for Epstein. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump...
jknoepfler 10y ago
There is an identifiable patient-zero (one or more). We have the tools to figure that out. Those individuals did not believe what they wrote.
- 75j 10y ago
  > Those individuals did not believe what they wrote. How do you know that?
  - jknoepfler 10y ago
    I don't. I would be willing to wager at 19:1 odds that a jury of my peers would agree with me if presented with the facts of how the story emerged on the internet that patient zero was knowingly publishing false information. I'm willing to make that bet because there are a very small number of ways such a story can get started, and I have beliefs about their relative likelihood.
m8urn 10y ago
Watching in horror… yet can't stop looking.

mckoss 10y ago

Libel does not require that the writer knows what he is saying is false (though doing so will increase the amount of damages you can collect). You can successfully sue for libel by only showing that the statements made against you were false, and that you were damaged by them.

dragonwriter 10y ago
That...depends. In the U.S., under federal constitutional case law, if the matter either concerns a public figure or a matter of public concern, actual malice (knowing falsity or reckless disregard for the truth) is required. The issue here would seem likely to meet the standard for public concern.

defgeneric 10y ago

Can confirm they really do believe. I've also been a lurker, and I thought it was a joke at the start--and it probably was--but watching it bootstrap itself was fascinating.

75j 10y ago
I have also been amused by all the delusional assertions on 4chan and r/pizzagate, and I feel sorry for anyone innocent caught up in this, but this whole thing would have never caught on if there weren't real connections between the Clintons and child sex offenders. Bill Clinton really did ride on a child sex trafficker's private jet 26 times, and really went to his private island where underage girls have alleged that they were enslaved. It's also true that underaged-sexter Anthony Weiner's computer had all of Clinton's emails on it. It's true that the Podestas are close friends with Dennis Hastert and Tony mentioned post-conviction that he's "stayed in touch with denny Hastert [...] all these years". It's true that Hillary and Cheryl Mills emailed repeatedly back and forth about child trafficker Laura Silsby, with Mills referring to her only as "Laura", and that Bill Clinton traveled to Haiti and brokered a short prison term for Silsby and the release of the other "missionaries" involved. So, while "pizzagate" in itself may be totally false, rumors like this would not exist if the US did not consistently invite human garbage into its highest political office.
- hokkos 10y ago
  Speaking of Epstein and human garbage, I wonder why The_Donald, /pol/, never talk about what Trump has to say about Epstein : http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/ : Epstein likes to tell people that he's a loner, a man who's never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
  - 75j 10y ago
    Yes, it's a sad time to be an American. For those that don't know, Trump has been sued over allegations of raping a 13 year old girl who worked for Epstein. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump...

jknoepfler 10y ago

There is an identifiable patient-zero (one or more). We have the tools to figure that out. Those individuals did not believe what they wrote.

75j 10y ago
> Those individuals did not believe what they wrote. How do you know that?
- jknoepfler 10y ago
  I don't. I would be willing to wager at 19:1 odds that a jury of my peers would agree with me if presented with the facts of how the story emerged on the internet that patient zero was knowingly publishing false information. I'm willing to make that bet because there are a very small number of ways such a story can get started, and I have beliefs about their relative likelihood.

m8urn 10y ago

Watching in horror… yet can't stop looking.