4 ms·

After completely failing at predicting Trump's election victory and completely misjudging the views of the populace, the mainstream media is now taking advantag

by meric 10y ago

After completely failing at predicting Trump's election victory and completely misjudging the views of the populace, the mainstream media is now taking advantage of this situation using the tag 'fake news' to label competition to restore its credibility. A Pizza Shop on a crusade against 'fake news', new term for this month, who knew?

sooheon 10y ago
You can deride the NYT, but none of what you said makes this pizzeria owner's plight any less real. It is a very real problem that the populace can be manipulated to the point of irrational misdirected hate like this.
- thirdsun 10y ago
  > It is a very real problem that the populace can be manipulated to the point of irrational misdirected hate like this. It's things like these that sometimes make me question the democratic system. These people aren't fit to vote.
  - dennisnedry 10y ago
    Who are you to determine who is fit to vote or not vote? The point of democracy is that EVERY citizen has a say in their government, despite how insane their belief system may be.
    - sofal 10y ago
      The point of democracy is that EVERY citizen has a say in their government, despite how insane their belief system may be. Presumably this is why the poster you responded to is questioning the democratic system, so you haven't really presented a counterargument here.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - thirdsun 10y ago
      I'm not saying I am and I don't claim to have an alternative to the current system. However it's my very subjective opinion that participation in the democratic process maybe shouldn't be unconditional considering there are people who are that prone to be manipulated by objectively and obviously fake news as outlined in the article. Most roles in society, whether it's being a lawyer, doctor, parent, student or bus driver, come with requirements. Maybe being a voter should too. Again, I don't have any solutions - just thinking out loud. Regardless of this and to put focus on those that publish this nonsense, of course there should be real consequences and liabilities for the outlets of these insane stories.
- sneezeplease 10y ago
  THE POOR PEDOPHILE PIZZA SHOP OWNER BOOO HOOO.
- leereeves 10y ago
  You're certainly right about the plight of the pizza shop, but the NYT is not normally in the business of reporting on the plight of a pizza shop. That was merely a story that fit a larger agenda (their recent push to discredit independent media by focusing on fake news). Fake news is a problem but trusting corporate media is not a solution.
  - untog 10y ago
    The larger agenda of... informing people about incorrect information? We're at the point where NYT could publish a video of someone confessing to murder with a weapon in their hand and someone would comment "typical corporate media shills".
    - leereeves 10y ago
      The larger agenda of informing people of only incorrect information provided by independent media. Surely you've noticed the many stories about "fake news" recently. Where are the stories about independent media getting a scoop? Publishing a story the corporate media ignore or would prefer to ignore? Exposing corporate media errors or misquoted sources? Corporate media (usually) tells the truth, but only part of the truth, and in so doing they attempt to skew public opinion. In this case, they'd like to skew public opinion toward distrust of independent media.
untog 10y ago
What exactly are you suggesting here? That the NYT made up this story? That they shouldn't report on this story because they got Trump winning the election wrong? This seems like an interesting and informative story to me. Threads for any NYT story are going to get really tedious if they all get a "they got Trump wrong so why should I listen?" comment attached.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  This thinking, coupled with reports from the media huddle in Trump Tower today and his statements on libel really make me afraid for the free press in this country.
- whybroke 10y ago
  >What exactly are you suggesting here? There is no coherent suggestion. What he and his cohort is doing is yelling 'Lugenpresse' into every discussion on the topic they can find.
  - meric 10y ago
    Every news everywhere is labelling fake/lying news everywhere else. Fake news/Lugenpresse same terms different language.
    - whybroke 10y ago
      Screaming 'the whole press lies!' and falsely equating it with deliberate fabrications has been done by the far right for 80 years. Spamming what would be intelligent discussions with such nonsense is a new thing.
- meric 10y ago
  This story is worth reporting and NYT is squeezing it to distract from its own failings. They should not lump all non-mainstream media under the fake news label, when even mainstream media reports fake news - Besides Clinton, Iraq weapons of mass destruction was another example.
xenadu02 10y ago
> A Pizza Shop on a crusade against 'fake news' Getting dozens of calls threatening to kill you, having your kid's pictures reposted all over the internet, and getting doxed are not how I would describe "a crusade against fake news". This is hardly new. Swatting, gamergate, etc are all manifestations of similar things. Why are you so dismissive? Internet mobs are easy to rile up and difficult to control. Each individual participating only takes one minor action (for example calling and yelling at the other party one time) but the victims of the abuse suffer a massive torrent of hate and slander with basically no recourse. People get fired because their employer doesn't want to deal with the harassment or bad press. For a long time a simple accusation was enough to get the mob going. Now you don't even need that much, just some conspiracy-mongering and a few likes on Facebook and you too can send a mob after anyone for no reason at all!
- leereeves 10y ago
  The NY Times helped rile up the mob that harassed Tim Hunt. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/tim-hunt-nobel-laureate-resigns-sexist-women-female-scientists.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/tim-hunt-nobe... They aren't opposed to Internet mobs, just those that don't fit their agenda.
  - adevine 10y ago
    Come on, this is a complete false equivalency. In Tim Hunt's case, Tim Hunt actually said the things that were the cause of other people's ire. Perhaps you can argue that NYT's opinion pages were one sided, but at least they are explicitly labeled as opinion. The mob that harassed the pizza shop owner was riled up by a totally false and horrific, incredibly libelous lie.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - tnones 10y ago
      He said them in jest, and the audience didn't react in horror the way the original clickbait said they did, as proven by recordings. It was pure projection and misrepresentation on the author's part, and everyone else listened and believed and ran with it. It was also false, horrific and libellous, and he did lose his job over it. Just because the stick used to beat people with was misogyny instead of cheese pizza, doesn't make the act of spreading false information any less despicable. Edit: BTW, the fact that our media is now staffed by people who are utterly unable to separate their subjective experience from objective reality should seriously worry you. It should also make you reconsider anything you've heard about what's going on in culture wars online and offline, because I guarantee you, the people covering it do not have the statistical and digital literacy to accurately gauge the size and nature of things.
adevine 10y ago
This attitude is kind of infuriating. The fact that there are problems with the mainstream media does not mean that the current explosion of complete and utter bullshit, what has been referred to as "the post-fact era", is somehow better or OK.
- DigForTheKids 10y ago
  Have you looked at the evidence of this incident? Perhaps if you would, you would feel differently.

by meric 10y ago

sooheon 10y ago

You can deride the NYT, but none of what you said makes this pizzeria owner's plight any less real. It is a very real problem that the populace can be manipulated to the point of irrational misdirected hate like this.

thirdsun 10y ago
> It is a very real problem that the populace can be manipulated to the point of irrational misdirected hate like this. It's things like these that sometimes make me question the democratic system. These people aren't fit to vote.
- dennisnedry 10y ago
  Who are you to determine who is fit to vote or not vote? The point of democracy is that EVERY citizen has a say in their government, despite how insane their belief system may be.
  - sofal 10y ago
    The point of democracy is that EVERY citizen has a say in their government, despite how insane their belief system may be. Presumably this is why the poster you responded to is questioning the democratic system, so you haven't really presented a counterargument here.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - thirdsun 10y ago
    I'm not saying I am and I don't claim to have an alternative to the current system. However it's my very subjective opinion that participation in the democratic process maybe shouldn't be unconditional considering there are people who are that prone to be manipulated by objectively and obviously fake news as outlined in the article. Most roles in society, whether it's being a lawyer, doctor, parent, student or bus driver, come with requirements. Maybe being a voter should too. Again, I don't have any solutions - just thinking out loud. Regardless of this and to put focus on those that publish this nonsense, of course there should be real consequences and liabilities for the outlets of these insane stories.
sneezeplease 10y ago
THE POOR PEDOPHILE PIZZA SHOP OWNER BOOO HOOO.
leereeves 10y ago
You're certainly right about the plight of the pizza shop, but the NYT is not normally in the business of reporting on the plight of a pizza shop. That was merely a story that fit a larger agenda (their recent push to discredit independent media by focusing on fake news). Fake news is a problem but trusting corporate media is not a solution.
- untog 10y ago
  The larger agenda of... informing people about incorrect information? We're at the point where NYT could publish a video of someone confessing to murder with a weapon in their hand and someone would comment "typical corporate media shills".
  - leereeves 10y ago
    The larger agenda of informing people of only incorrect information provided by independent media. Surely you've noticed the many stories about "fake news" recently. Where are the stories about independent media getting a scoop? Publishing a story the corporate media ignore or would prefer to ignore? Exposing corporate media errors or misquoted sources? Corporate media (usually) tells the truth, but only part of the truth, and in so doing they attempt to skew public opinion. In this case, they'd like to skew public opinion toward distrust of independent media.

untog 10y ago

What exactly are you suggesting here? That the NYT made up this story? That they shouldn't report on this story because they got Trump winning the election wrong? This seems like an interesting and informative story to me. Threads for any NYT story are going to get really tedious if they all get a "they got Trump wrong so why should I listen?" comment attached.

akhilcacharya 10y ago
This thinking, coupled with reports from the media huddle in Trump Tower today and his statements on libel really make me afraid for the free press in this country.
whybroke 10y ago
>What exactly are you suggesting here? There is no coherent suggestion. What he and his cohort is doing is yelling 'Lugenpresse' into every discussion on the topic they can find.
- meric 10y ago
  Every news everywhere is labelling fake/lying news everywhere else. Fake news/Lugenpresse same terms different language.
  - whybroke 10y ago
    Screaming 'the whole press lies!' and falsely equating it with deliberate fabrications has been done by the far right for 80 years. Spamming what would be intelligent discussions with such nonsense is a new thing.
meric 10y ago
This story is worth reporting and NYT is squeezing it to distract from its own failings. They should not lump all non-mainstream media under the fake news label, when even mainstream media reports fake news - Besides Clinton, Iraq weapons of mass destruction was another example.

xenadu02 10y ago

> A Pizza Shop on a crusade against 'fake news' Getting dozens of calls threatening to kill you, having your kid's pictures reposted all over the internet, and getting doxed are not how I would describe "a crusade against fake news". This is hardly new. Swatting, gamergate, etc are all manifestations of similar things. Why are you so dismissive? Internet mobs are easy to rile up and difficult to control. Each individual participating only takes one minor action (for example calling and yelling at the other party one time) but the victims of the abuse suffer a massive torrent of hate and slander with basically no recourse. People get fired because their employer doesn't want to deal with the harassment or bad press. For a long time a simple accusation was enough to get the mob going. Now you don't even need that much, just some conspiracy-mongering and a few likes on Facebook and you too can send a mob after anyone for no reason at all!

leereeves 10y ago
The NY Times helped rile up the mob that harassed Tim Hunt. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/tim-hunt-nobel-laureate-resigns-sexist-women-female-scientists.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/tim-hunt-nobe... They aren't opposed to Internet mobs, just those that don't fit their agenda.
- adevine 10y ago
  Come on, this is a complete false equivalency. In Tim Hunt's case, Tim Hunt actually said the things that were the cause of other people's ire. Perhaps you can argue that NYT's opinion pages were one sided, but at least they are explicitly labeled as opinion. The mob that harassed the pizza shop owner was riled up by a totally false and horrific, incredibly libelous lie.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - tnones 10y ago
    He said them in jest, and the audience didn't react in horror the way the original clickbait said they did, as proven by recordings. It was pure projection and misrepresentation on the author's part, and everyone else listened and believed and ran with it. It was also false, horrific and libellous, and he did lose his job over it. Just because the stick used to beat people with was misogyny instead of cheese pizza, doesn't make the act of spreading false information any less despicable. Edit: BTW, the fact that our media is now staffed by people who are utterly unable to separate their subjective experience from objective reality should seriously worry you. It should also make you reconsider anything you've heard about what's going on in culture wars online and offline, because I guarantee you, the people covering it do not have the statistical and digital literacy to accurately gauge the size and nature of things.

adevine 10y ago

This attitude is kind of infuriating. The fact that there are problems with the mainstream media does not mean that the current explosion of complete and utter bullshit, what has been referred to as "the post-fact era", is somehow better or OK.

DigForTheKids 10y ago
Have you looked at the evidence of this incident? Perhaps if you would, you would feel differently.