4 ms·

I'm not totally convinced of many of your arguments, but I upvoted for the explanations. I think at this point it's just a wait and see thing. We'll see where i

by bane 10y ago

I'm not totally convinced of many of your arguments, but I upvoted for the explanations. I think at this point it's just a wait and see thing. We'll see where it ends up in a decade or two. I'm obviously projecting many of my own assumptions onto the movement, but willing to try to accept new information and reevaluate my position on it. I still feel like it's at the nexus of some kind of misunderstanding of how property ownership works and some kind of hacking-the-system idealism. But maybe it'll come up with some good ideas. I actually understand the micro-apartment movement more, because you're getting the convenience of city living along with it, and high density zoning, except that movement is also broken in ways that micro-apartments end up costing as much or more than regular old places. Also, just as an FYI, the American style 30-year mortgage has been around since the 1930s as a response to the Great Depression and were designed to make housing more accessible.

internaut 10y ago
Have you seen the 1920s Sears Catalogue houses? http://www.searshomes.org/index.php/2011/07/03/oklahomas-first-sears-kit-home-the-saratoga/ http://www.searshomes.org/index.php/2011/07/03/oklahomas-fir... That house would only cost $47k in 2016 dollars. The TH movement is primarily about economics. I don't think it would exist if there were new quality houses available in that price range. Pardon my french, but isn't it just fucking amazing how we've 'progressed' with automation in a century and many of us are still working for decades just to afford mere shelter? It's often not even to a high spec. I sometimes look at that Primitive Technology guy and think "You know, that looks like a lot of work, but it only took him three days to construct that hut and he could rebuild it every year and it would still be way more cost effective per labour unit than anything we're doing right now!"
- someguydave 10y ago
  >Pardon my french, but isn't it just fucking amazing how we've 'progressed' with automation in a century and many of us are still working for decades just to afford mere shelter? It's often not even to a high spec. Yes but why is it this way? I think the best answer is that (in the US) the state has heavily restricted the supply of land available for development in desirable areas (through zoning, etc) and also heavily subsidized demand by nationalizing the mortgage market. This has pumped up several large sectors of the economy (FIRE) which would otherwise be subject to ordinary economic supply and demand. They all profit from home sales, construction and insurance, and have made certain that the state guarantees their revenue. Ordinary home buyers go along with the deal because they get cheaper loan rates and more loan principal than a purely private finance market would ever provide.
  - internaut 10y ago
    It's a similar tale of woe in the UK. I suspect it is an overhang from the Cold War - preventing the spread of Communism by the 'property owning society'. It's hard not to throw your hands up in the air, so much of the nonsense is legacy code. 'Going to Washington' is like fighting against quicksand.

by bane 10y ago

internaut 10y ago

Have you seen the 1920s Sears Catalogue houses? http://www.searshomes.org/index.php/2011/07/03/oklahomas-first-sears-kit-home-the-saratoga/ http://www.searshomes.org/index.php/2011/07/03/oklahomas-fir... That house would only cost $47k in 2016 dollars. The TH movement is primarily about economics. I don't think it would exist if there were new quality houses available in that price range. Pardon my french, but isn't it just fucking amazing how we've 'progressed' with automation in a century and many of us are still working for decades just to afford mere shelter? It's often not even to a high spec. I sometimes look at that Primitive Technology guy and think "You know, that looks like a lot of work, but it only took him three days to construct that hut and he could rebuild it every year and it would still be way more cost effective per labour unit than anything we're doing right now!"

someguydave 10y ago
>Pardon my french, but isn't it just fucking amazing how we've 'progressed' with automation in a century and many of us are still working for decades just to afford mere shelter? It's often not even to a high spec. Yes but why is it this way? I think the best answer is that (in the US) the state has heavily restricted the supply of land available for development in desirable areas (through zoning, etc) and also heavily subsidized demand by nationalizing the mortgage market. This has pumped up several large sectors of the economy (FIRE) which would otherwise be subject to ordinary economic supply and demand. They all profit from home sales, construction and insurance, and have made certain that the state guarantees their revenue. Ordinary home buyers go along with the deal because they get cheaper loan rates and more loan principal than a purely private finance market would ever provide.
- internaut 10y ago
  It's a similar tale of woe in the UK. I suspect it is an overhang from the Cold War - preventing the spread of Communism by the 'property owning society'. It's hard not to throw your hands up in the air, so much of the nonsense is legacy code. 'Going to Washington' is like fighting against quicksand.