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I am a Californian. I do not support secession. I think it's stupid, and the people who support it are short-sighted. The movement got a lot of attention after

I am a Californian. I do not support secession. I think it's stupid, and the people who support it are short-sighted. The movement got a lot of attention after Trump got elected, which to me, smells of a bunch of whiny babies who are stamping their feet because they didn't get their way (disclosure: I did not vote for Trump, nor am I happy he won). Not only that, but I have a vague recollection of this being tried before. Exactly what makes secessionists think they can build an army large enough to beat the US military? Oh, ok. They want to vote themselves out of the union. Guess what, it doesn't work that way. And the second the US military comes by to put us all back in our place, the people crowing for secession are going to run with their tails between their legs. Also, how are we going to build a militia with all of our strict gun laws?? If our economy is so much bigger and worth more representation than everyone else's, let's quit whining and start flexing that muscle more...many regulations we enact here have the ability to force companies across the nation to adopt them. We have the amount of representation we have because of the US constitution. If that's a problem, either change the constitution or find other ways to exert power. Secession is going to be a lot more expensive in the long run.

flukus 10y ago
Secession does not require war. Look at your northern neighbors, or even several states which broke away from their parent states.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  Who did our northern neighbors secede from? (I presume you mean Canada.) Not from the US. Who did the states that broke away from parent states secede from? Not from the US. Secession from the US may well require war. If not that, it's going to require following a recognized constitutional process (which I'm pretty sure there isn't one). Barring that, it's at least going to require congressional approval, not vetoed by the President. Good luck getting that. California passing a referendum? Yeah, that and $6 will get you coffee at Starbucks.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Why do you need a US example? Just because it hasn't been done in the US does not make it impossible, but in any case, it has been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Declaration_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Declaration_of_Inde...
    - orthecreedence 10y ago
      > Why do you need a US example? Because here is what happens when states try to secede in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
      - marssaxman 10y ago
        That is what happened that one time. Why do you assume that is the only way it could ever happen? Do you think that the people proposing Californian secession are entirely unaware of the Civil War? Perhaps they have learned something from that example, and don't merely aim to repeat it, as you appear to assume.
    - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
      Yeah, and how did that work out? Quoting from the article: > The Philippine Revolutionary Government did not recognize the treaty or American sovereignty, and subsequently fought and lost a conflict with United States originally referred to by the Americans as the "Philippine Insurrection" but now generally and officially called the Philippine–American War, which ended when Emilio Aguinaldo was captured by U.S. forces, and issued a statement acknowledging and accepting the sovereignty of the United States over the Philippines. So maybe not the example you're looking for. Why do I need a US example? Because the examples of one state seceding from another happened with the blessing, and even the instigation, of the Federal government. More: The new state remained within the US. That's quite different from a state trying to leave the US (in particular, it's different in how the Federal government would respond). It's happened elsewhere? Well, it shouldn't be news that the US doesn't really care how it's done elsewhere...
- orthecreedence 10y ago
  Sorry, which states in the US have successfully seceded from the union?
  - Mz 10y ago
    They are referring to the fact that Canada (and Australia and a bunch of other nations) peacefully separated from Great Britain. The fact that it hasn't happened in the U.S. does not mean it cannot be done.
    - orthecreedence 10y ago
      > The fact that it hasn't happened in the U.S. does not mean it cannot be done. It has been tried before, and there's a pretty big precedent for what happens. That precedent is civil war. How is California seceding going to be any different from the southern states?
      - flukus 10y ago
        The Confederacy independence also involved seizure of federal assets, something that would be very unlikely or impossible with a modern independence movement.
    - candiodari 10y ago
      You mean after several other states did so violently and demonstrated beyond any real doubt that Great Britain could not maintain control ? That's not peaceful. Or at least, not any more peaceful than nuclear deterrent is.
      - flukus 10y ago
        No, we mean after the world changed and violently suppressing independence movements became no longer viable in western democracies.
  - flukus 10y ago
    I never said any have. Just because none have does not make it impossible, especially in modern times. If California voted for independence on the US stopped it then the would be seen as a belligerent invading nation and suffer tough sanctions.
- pharrington 10y ago
  California is by far the largest contributor to the US's GDP. It's quite literally California's money that funds our federal programs and corporate tax breaks. California leaving the union would kindof obliterate the union's economy. Also, California is physically connected to the US. What circumstances are you imagining where the feds just let CA mosey on off and do their own thing?

flukus 10y ago

Secession does not require war. Look at your northern neighbors, or even several states which broke away from their parent states.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
Who did our northern neighbors secede from? (I presume you mean Canada.) Not from the US. Who did the states that broke away from parent states secede from? Not from the US. Secession from the US may well require war. If not that, it's going to require following a recognized constitutional process (which I'm pretty sure there isn't one). Barring that, it's at least going to require congressional approval, not vetoed by the President. Good luck getting that. California passing a referendum? Yeah, that and $6 will get you coffee at Starbucks.
- flukus 10y ago
  Why do you need a US example? Just because it hasn't been done in the US does not make it impossible, but in any case, it has been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Declaration_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Declaration_of_Inde...
  - orthecreedence 10y ago
    > Why do you need a US example? Because here is what happens when states try to secede in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
    - marssaxman 10y ago
      That is what happened that one time. Why do you assume that is the only way it could ever happen? Do you think that the people proposing Californian secession are entirely unaware of the Civil War? Perhaps they have learned something from that example, and don't merely aim to repeat it, as you appear to assume.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    Yeah, and how did that work out? Quoting from the article: > The Philippine Revolutionary Government did not recognize the treaty or American sovereignty, and subsequently fought and lost a conflict with United States originally referred to by the Americans as the "Philippine Insurrection" but now generally and officially called the Philippine–American War, which ended when Emilio Aguinaldo was captured by U.S. forces, and issued a statement acknowledging and accepting the sovereignty of the United States over the Philippines. So maybe not the example you're looking for. Why do I need a US example? Because the examples of one state seceding from another happened with the blessing, and even the instigation, of the Federal government. More: The new state remained within the US. That's quite different from a state trying to leave the US (in particular, it's different in how the Federal government would respond). It's happened elsewhere? Well, it shouldn't be news that the US doesn't really care how it's done elsewhere...
orthecreedence 10y ago
Sorry, which states in the US have successfully seceded from the union?
- Mz 10y ago
  They are referring to the fact that Canada (and Australia and a bunch of other nations) peacefully separated from Great Britain. The fact that it hasn't happened in the U.S. does not mean it cannot be done.
  - orthecreedence 10y ago
    > The fact that it hasn't happened in the U.S. does not mean it cannot be done. It has been tried before, and there's a pretty big precedent for what happens. That precedent is civil war. How is California seceding going to be any different from the southern states?
    - flukus 10y ago
      The Confederacy independence also involved seizure of federal assets, something that would be very unlikely or impossible with a modern independence movement.
  - candiodari 10y ago
    You mean after several other states did so violently and demonstrated beyond any real doubt that Great Britain could not maintain control ? That's not peaceful. Or at least, not any more peaceful than nuclear deterrent is.
    - flukus 10y ago
      No, we mean after the world changed and violently suppressing independence movements became no longer viable in western democracies.
- flukus 10y ago
  I never said any have. Just because none have does not make it impossible, especially in modern times. If California voted for independence on the US stopped it then the would be seen as a belligerent invading nation and suffer tough sanctions.
pharrington 10y ago
California is by far the largest contributor to the US's GDP. It's quite literally California's money that funds our federal programs and corporate tax breaks. California leaving the union would kindof obliterate the union's economy. Also, California is physically connected to the US. What circumstances are you imagining where the feds just let CA mosey on off and do their own thing?