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> The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions... This probably isn't the primary drive behind the secession movement. Not wanting t

> The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions... This probably isn't the primary drive behind the secession movement. Not wanting to pay federal taxes to a government that you don't feel represents your interests (see the CA popular vote difference for president) is probably more important.

msandford 10y ago
But I thought the Obama election settled that Texans who wanted to do the exact same thing were racists!
CalChris 10y ago
More Federal taxes for less Federal spending and substantially less Federal representation. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-st... Take a look back at the Base Realignment and Closures of the 90s and 2000s. California was gutted. The Bay Area was dotted with bases, pretty much all gone. Mississippi lost one, in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure
- blackflame7000 10y ago
  This is a good point that I overlooked and I know my home city of San Diego was effected by this as well. However, despite these closings, the Military still contributes greatly to California's economy and that revenue would have to be made up. By the numbers I highly doubt these secessionists are also proponents of defense spending.
blackflame7000 10y ago
It would be one thing if California had a history of reasonable public finance policy but the argument looses weight when you consider how much money California is wasting on the Crony Express. You can't be the arbiter of fiscal responsibility while simultaneously building the equivalent of the Springfield monorail.
- ardit33 10y ago
  Do you think High Speed Rail is a stupid idea, or just the implementation is wasteful/corrupt? I am asking this as I am traveling from NYC to Boston via train, and it takes almost 4hrs on a french made train, while if it was in France, it would have taken only 1.5 hrs to 2hrs max. In one thing the US is behind the rest of the developed world, fast train travel is one of them.
  - blackflame7000 10y ago
    The biggest problem is that the Santa Monica Mountains block the high speed rail from connecting to LA. The closest they can get is Burbank. Having lived in LA for college, I can tell you that the time it takes to get from say Santa Monica to Burbank is often more than it takes to fly to San Francisco from LAX. I'm not kidding. Flight Time: https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12-06;r=2016-12-10;q=lax+to+san+francisco+flight+time https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12... Traffic Time from Santa Monica to Burbank alone: https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG= https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG... The plan fully acknowledges this short coming and responds with nothing more than a shoulder shrug to the glaring problem. Now consider the costs of the train compared to that of a flight, when you have factored in LA's terrible public transportation and suddenly flights are clearly more economical. Even worse is that California only has less than 50% of the funding for the project secured and that is without cost overruns. Jerry Brown is hoping to put enough sunk cost into the rail line that we are forced to build the entire thing much to the benefit of the select few land owners in the central california. I'm all for improved public transportation but the whole thing is a giant scam taking advantage of Californians affinity for the environment and ignorance of bond measures.I have yet to hear a convincing argument on why people would take the train when they could be in SF by the time the get to the train station.
- stanleydrew 10y ago
  Note that I'm not making an argument, so I don't necessarily disagree with you. I was merely pointing out that trying to avoid differing opinions likely isn't the main motivation behind this.
orthecreedence 10y ago
Yes, those are the stated reasons for the cause, but why is the idea getting so much attention at the moment? My guess is there are a lot of people angry that Trump got elected who are resorting to useless hail-marys like petitioning the electoral college to vote for their candidate or for California to secede. Given a few months, the secession movement will hopefully crawl back into the hole it came out of once the anti-Trump crowd runs out of a bit of steam.

msandford 10y ago

But I thought the Obama election settled that Texans who wanted to do the exact same thing were racists!

CalChris 10y ago

More Federal taxes for less Federal spending and substantially less Federal representation. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-st... Take a look back at the Base Realignment and Closures of the 90s and 2000s. California was gutted. The Bay Area was dotted with bases, pretty much all gone. Mississippi lost one, in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure

blackflame7000 10y ago
This is a good point that I overlooked and I know my home city of San Diego was effected by this as well. However, despite these closings, the Military still contributes greatly to California's economy and that revenue would have to be made up. By the numbers I highly doubt these secessionists are also proponents of defense spending.

blackflame7000 10y ago

It would be one thing if California had a history of reasonable public finance policy but the argument looses weight when you consider how much money California is wasting on the Crony Express. You can't be the arbiter of fiscal responsibility while simultaneously building the equivalent of the Springfield monorail.

ardit33 10y ago
Do you think High Speed Rail is a stupid idea, or just the implementation is wasteful/corrupt? I am asking this as I am traveling from NYC to Boston via train, and it takes almost 4hrs on a french made train, while if it was in France, it would have taken only 1.5 hrs to 2hrs max. In one thing the US is behind the rest of the developed world, fast train travel is one of them.
- blackflame7000 10y ago
  The biggest problem is that the Santa Monica Mountains block the high speed rail from connecting to LA. The closest they can get is Burbank. Having lived in LA for college, I can tell you that the time it takes to get from say Santa Monica to Burbank is often more than it takes to fly to San Francisco from LAX. I'm not kidding. Flight Time: https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12-06;r=2016-12-10;q=lax+to+san+francisco+flight+time https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12... Traffic Time from Santa Monica to Burbank alone: https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG= https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG... The plan fully acknowledges this short coming and responds with nothing more than a shoulder shrug to the glaring problem. Now consider the costs of the train compared to that of a flight, when you have factored in LA's terrible public transportation and suddenly flights are clearly more economical. Even worse is that California only has less than 50% of the funding for the project secured and that is without cost overruns. Jerry Brown is hoping to put enough sunk cost into the rail line that we are forced to build the entire thing much to the benefit of the select few land owners in the central california. I'm all for improved public transportation but the whole thing is a giant scam taking advantage of Californians affinity for the environment and ignorance of bond measures.I have yet to hear a convincing argument on why people would take the train when they could be in SF by the time the get to the train station.
stanleydrew 10y ago
Note that I'm not making an argument, so I don't necessarily disagree with you. I was merely pointing out that trying to avoid differing opinions likely isn't the main motivation behind this.

orthecreedence 10y ago

Yes, those are the stated reasons for the cause, but why is the idea getting so much attention at the moment? My guess is there are a lot of people angry that Trump got elected who are resorting to useless hail-marys like petitioning the electoral college to vote for their candidate or for California to secede. Given a few months, the secession movement will hopefully crawl back into the hole it came out of once the anti-Trump crowd runs out of a bit of steam.