4 ms·

Succession is the long term solution to a short term problem. The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions alone should be alarming e

Succession is the long term solution to a short term problem. The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions alone should be alarming enough to send everyones hypocricy meter into a tizzy. These people are exactly who SNL was addressing in their Bubble skit. https://youtu.be/vKOb-kmOgpI https://youtu.be/vKOb-kmOgpI

flukus 10y ago
Is it really a short term problem? For a long time there has been a growing gulf between various regions of the USA. Some of them would probably be much closer to a European style social democracy by now if they were separated.
stanleydrew 10y ago
> The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions... This probably isn't the primary drive behind the secession movement. Not wanting to pay federal taxes to a government that you don't feel represents your interests (see the CA popular vote difference for president) is probably more important.
- msandford 10y ago
  But I thought the Obama election settled that Texans who wanted to do the exact same thing were racists!
- CalChris 10y ago
  More Federal taxes for less Federal spending and substantially less Federal representation. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-st... Take a look back at the Base Realignment and Closures of the 90s and 2000s. California was gutted. The Bay Area was dotted with bases, pretty much all gone. Mississippi lost one, in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure
  - blackflame7000 10y ago
    This is a good point that I overlooked and I know my home city of San Diego was effected by this as well. However, despite these closings, the Military still contributes greatly to California's economy and that revenue would have to be made up. By the numbers I highly doubt these secessionists are also proponents of defense spending.
- blackflame7000 10y ago
  It would be one thing if California had a history of reasonable public finance policy but the argument looses weight when you consider how much money California is wasting on the Crony Express. You can't be the arbiter of fiscal responsibility while simultaneously building the equivalent of the Springfield monorail.
  - ardit33 10y ago
    Do you think High Speed Rail is a stupid idea, or just the implementation is wasteful/corrupt? I am asking this as I am traveling from NYC to Boston via train, and it takes almost 4hrs on a french made train, while if it was in France, it would have taken only 1.5 hrs to 2hrs max. In one thing the US is behind the rest of the developed world, fast train travel is one of them.
    - blackflame7000 10y ago
      The biggest problem is that the Santa Monica Mountains block the high speed rail from connecting to LA. The closest they can get is Burbank. Having lived in LA for college, I can tell you that the time it takes to get from say Santa Monica to Burbank is often more than it takes to fly to San Francisco from LAX. I'm not kidding. Flight Time: https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12-06;r=2016-12-10;q=lax+to+san+francisco+flight+time https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12... Traffic Time from Santa Monica to Burbank alone: https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG= https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG... The plan fully acknowledges this short coming and responds with nothing more than a shoulder shrug to the glaring problem. Now consider the costs of the train compared to that of a flight, when you have factored in LA's terrible public transportation and suddenly flights are clearly more economical. Even worse is that California only has less than 50% of the funding for the project secured and that is without cost overruns. Jerry Brown is hoping to put enough sunk cost into the rail line that we are forced to build the entire thing much to the benefit of the select few land owners in the central california. I'm all for improved public transportation but the whole thing is a giant scam taking advantage of Californians affinity for the environment and ignorance of bond measures.I have yet to hear a convincing argument on why people would take the train when they could be in SF by the time the get to the train station.
- orthecreedence 10y ago
  Yes, those are the stated reasons for the cause, but why is the idea getting so much attention at the moment? My guess is there are a lot of people angry that Trump got elected who are resorting to useless hail-marys like petitioning the electoral college to vote for their candidate or for California to secede. Given a few months, the secession movement will hopefully crawl back into the hole it came out of once the anti-Trump crowd runs out of a bit of steam.
darawk 10y ago
There is a pretty big difference between not wanting to see opposing opinions and not wanting to be governed by opposing opinions. It makes sense to compose governments from ideologically aligned people. It does not make sense to compose debate about those ideologies from aligned people.
- blackflame7000 10y ago
  Well the irony is that it is California's own senator, Boxer, pushing to eliminate the Electoral College which was designed for the sole purpose of stopping states like California from dominating the legislative agenda. The fact is that California gets its voice heard so much more than say Nebraska that its hypocritical for California to start complaining in a rare instance where they didn't get their way.
mehwoot 10y ago
The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions alone should be alarming enough to send everyones hypocricy meter into a tizzy. If you try reading the article before commenting you'll see they've been planning for two years and it's about California not getting back what it pays in Tax.

flukus 10y ago

Is it really a short term problem? For a long time there has been a growing gulf between various regions of the USA. Some of them would probably be much closer to a European style social democracy by now if they were separated.

stanleydrew 10y ago

> The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions... This probably isn't the primary drive behind the secession movement. Not wanting to pay federal taxes to a government that you don't feel represents your interests (see the CA popular vote difference for president) is probably more important.

msandford 10y ago
But I thought the Obama election settled that Texans who wanted to do the exact same thing were racists!
CalChris 10y ago
More Federal taxes for less Federal spending and substantially less Federal representation. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-st... Take a look back at the Base Realignment and Closures of the 90s and 2000s. California was gutted. The Bay Area was dotted with bases, pretty much all gone. Mississippi lost one, in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure
- blackflame7000 10y ago
  This is a good point that I overlooked and I know my home city of San Diego was effected by this as well. However, despite these closings, the Military still contributes greatly to California's economy and that revenue would have to be made up. By the numbers I highly doubt these secessionists are also proponents of defense spending.
blackflame7000 10y ago
It would be one thing if California had a history of reasonable public finance policy but the argument looses weight when you consider how much money California is wasting on the Crony Express. You can't be the arbiter of fiscal responsibility while simultaneously building the equivalent of the Springfield monorail.
- ardit33 10y ago
  Do you think High Speed Rail is a stupid idea, or just the implementation is wasteful/corrupt? I am asking this as I am traveling from NYC to Boston via train, and it takes almost 4hrs on a french made train, while if it was in France, it would have taken only 1.5 hrs to 2hrs max. In one thing the US is behind the rest of the developed world, fast train travel is one of them.
  - blackflame7000 10y ago
    The biggest problem is that the Santa Monica Mountains block the high speed rail from connecting to LA. The closest they can get is Burbank. Having lived in LA for college, I can tell you that the time it takes to get from say Santa Monica to Burbank is often more than it takes to fly to San Francisco from LAX. I'm not kidding. Flight Time: https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12-06;r=2016-12-10;q=lax+to+san+francisco+flight+time https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=LAX;t=SFO;d=2016-12... Traffic Time from Santa Monica to Burbank alone: https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG= https://www.google.com/search?q=santa+monica+to+burbank&btnG... The plan fully acknowledges this short coming and responds with nothing more than a shoulder shrug to the glaring problem. Now consider the costs of the train compared to that of a flight, when you have factored in LA's terrible public transportation and suddenly flights are clearly more economical. Even worse is that California only has less than 50% of the funding for the project secured and that is without cost overruns. Jerry Brown is hoping to put enough sunk cost into the rail line that we are forced to build the entire thing much to the benefit of the select few land owners in the central california. I'm all for improved public transportation but the whole thing is a giant scam taking advantage of Californians affinity for the environment and ignorance of bond measures.I have yet to hear a convincing argument on why people would take the train when they could be in SF by the time the get to the train station.
orthecreedence 10y ago
Yes, those are the stated reasons for the cause, but why is the idea getting so much attention at the moment? My guess is there are a lot of people angry that Trump got elected who are resorting to useless hail-marys like petitioning the electoral college to vote for their candidate or for California to secede. Given a few months, the secession movement will hopefully crawl back into the hole it came out of once the anti-Trump crowd runs out of a bit of steam.

darawk 10y ago

There is a pretty big difference between not wanting to see opposing opinions and not wanting to be governed by opposing opinions. It makes sense to compose governments from ideologically aligned people. It does not make sense to compose debate about those ideologies from aligned people.

blackflame7000 10y ago
Well the irony is that it is California's own senator, Boxer, pushing to eliminate the Electoral College which was designed for the sole purpose of stopping states like California from dominating the legislative agenda. The fact is that California gets its voice heard so much more than say Nebraska that its hypocritical for California to start complaining in a rare instance where they didn't get their way.

mehwoot 10y ago

The irony of California wanting to be segregated from opposing opinions alone should be alarming enough to send everyones hypocricy meter into a tizzy. If you try reading the article before commenting you'll see they've been planning for two years and it's about California not getting back what it pays in Tax.