5 ms·

Is this so they can build their own Blockchain?

tekklloneer 10y ago
Is this a claim in the form of a question? They could do both, after all.
polack 10y ago
The other members was not happy when they found out that GS applied for patents that could affect R3. My guess is that GS thinks they will make more money on their own when they built up a nice patent portfolio in this space.
- gnarbarian 10y ago
  Reminds me of this quote: "Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!" -https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson this bank should have been smashed into a thousand pieces and and scattered to the wind as a condition of the bailout.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    A colorful Andrew Jackson quote. The Bank War was a little more complex and Jackson himself was no innocent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_War He also said: All the rights secured to the citizens under the Constitution are worth nothing, and a mere bubble, except guaranteed to them by an independent and virtuous Judiciary. John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!
    - gnarbarian 10y ago
      I am a firm believer that we should not judge people from the past using the moral standard of today. Remember that even Obama opposed gay marriage up until a couple years ago.
      - CalChris 10y ago
        And yet you quoted someone from the past as an exemplar regarding a moral issue of today. You kinda opened that door.
        gnarbarian 10y ago
        It's a relevant quote that matches the sentiment many of us have toward banks which are "too big to fail".
  - c3534l 10y ago
    A rousing quote from a genocidal madman who didn't understand finance and crippled the US economy for nearly a hundred years.
    - terravion 10y ago
      Genocidal I can grant, but we are talking about bank policy here. It seems that all evidence says that the 100 years after Jackson were objectively some of the most economically dynamic for the United States, especially in comparison to Europe or any other place in the world during that period. How was the economy crippled?
      - c3534l 10y ago
        It was my understanding that (and especially absent a central bank) the US economy became prone to frequent and periodic economic panics, uncontrolled periods of inflation and deflation, and general financial instability.
        iopq 10y ago
        As opposed to now, when we have frequent bubbles and bursts and more inflation? It's hard to say what's better.
        bildung 10y ago
        Both bubbles and bursts were more frequent and of higher amplitude in the 19th century: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflat...
      - CobrastanJorji 10y ago
        You are referring to the time period immediately preceding but not including the 1940s and 50s?
      - pfranz 10y ago
        I can't speak for the 100 years, but I always thought his determination to pay off the national debt was a big contributor to economic problems[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Panic_of_1837 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Panic_of_1837
  - tootie 10y ago
    GS didn't receive any direct bailout funds. Only what it received via AIG which wasn't all that much.
    - CalChris 10y ago
      This is incorrect. Goldman Sachs received $10B which they repaid. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-14-tarp-repay-bank-bailout_N.htm http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-14-tarp...
      - seanhunter 10y ago
        That's true. All the banks were forced to take bailout money because the concern was if a sound bank was allowed to refuse, shaky banks would either be punished in the market for accepting or worse would be pressured into refusing when they actually needed the money. GS paid the money back literally as soon as they were allowed to.
        CalChris 10y ago
        Not a GS fan at all. Arguably Lehman was gutted at their bidding. They only became a bank that September. Etc.
- TheOsiris 10y ago
  I don't think it's that simple/straight forward. Another member has also dropped out: http://www.coindesk.com/santander-drops-out-r3-blockchain-consortium/ http://www.coindesk.com/santander-drops-out-r3-blockchain-co...
- TuringNYC 10y ago
  That surprises me -- they make a lot of money from swaps and other non-exchange settled contracts' volume, especially if such contracts can be traded easily across banks. MarkItPartners is an excellent example of how all the banks made a lot of money through a consortium pushing a unified standard. Why try to make money off a patent when they can grow volume on their core product?
  - gnarbarian 10y ago
    because they would love to unilaterally control critical pieces of next gen digital currencies enabling them to bludgeon competing standards / companies out of the market with IP licensing fees.
- j1vms 10y ago
  > GS thinks they will make more money on their own when they built up a nice patent portfolio in this space. So instead of contributing back to the community on a openly-developed technology (not talking about R3, but Satoshi's blockchain concept), they could decide that the best course of action is to patent encumber the shit out of it!
- desult 10y ago
  What patents? I just tried to find in the USPTO and nothing came up. Do you have a link?

Is this a claim in the form of a question? They could do both, after all.

The other members was not happy when they found out that GS applied for patents that could affect R3. My guess is that GS thinks they will make more money on their own when they built up a nice patent portfolio in this space.

gnarbarian 10y ago
Reminds me of this quote: "Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!" -https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson this bank should have been smashed into a thousand pieces and and scattered to the wind as a condition of the bailout.
- CalChris 10y ago
  A colorful Andrew Jackson quote. The Bank War was a little more complex and Jackson himself was no innocent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_War He also said: All the rights secured to the citizens under the Constitution are worth nothing, and a mere bubble, except guaranteed to them by an independent and virtuous Judiciary. John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!
  - gnarbarian 10y ago
    I am a firm believer that we should not judge people from the past using the moral standard of today. Remember that even Obama opposed gay marriage up until a couple years ago.
    - CalChris 10y ago
      And yet you quoted someone from the past as an exemplar regarding a moral issue of today. You kinda opened that door.
      - gnarbarian 10y ago
        It's a relevant quote that matches the sentiment many of us have toward banks which are "too big to fail".
- c3534l 10y ago
  A rousing quote from a genocidal madman who didn't understand finance and crippled the US economy for nearly a hundred years.
  - terravion 10y ago
    Genocidal I can grant, but we are talking about bank policy here. It seems that all evidence says that the 100 years after Jackson were objectively some of the most economically dynamic for the United States, especially in comparison to Europe or any other place in the world during that period. How was the economy crippled?
    - c3534l 10y ago
      It was my understanding that (and especially absent a central bank) the US economy became prone to frequent and periodic economic panics, uncontrolled periods of inflation and deflation, and general financial instability.
      - iopq 10y ago
        As opposed to now, when we have frequent bubbles and bursts and more inflation? It's hard to say what's better.
        bildung 10y ago
        Both bubbles and bursts were more frequent and of higher amplitude in the 19th century: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflat...
    - CobrastanJorji 10y ago
      You are referring to the time period immediately preceding but not including the 1940s and 50s?
    - pfranz 10y ago
      I can't speak for the 100 years, but I always thought his determination to pay off the national debt was a big contributor to economic problems[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Panic_of_1837 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Panic_of_1837
- tootie 10y ago
  GS didn't receive any direct bailout funds. Only what it received via AIG which wasn't all that much.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    This is incorrect. Goldman Sachs received $10B which they repaid. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-14-tarp-repay-bank-bailout_N.htm http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-14-tarp...
    - seanhunter 10y ago
      That's true. All the banks were forced to take bailout money because the concern was if a sound bank was allowed to refuse, shaky banks would either be punished in the market for accepting or worse would be pressured into refusing when they actually needed the money. GS paid the money back literally as soon as they were allowed to.
      - CalChris 10y ago
        Not a GS fan at all. Arguably Lehman was gutted at their bidding. They only became a bank that September. Etc.
TheOsiris 10y ago
I don't think it's that simple/straight forward. Another member has also dropped out: http://www.coindesk.com/santander-drops-out-r3-blockchain-consortium/ http://www.coindesk.com/santander-drops-out-r3-blockchain-co...
TuringNYC 10y ago
That surprises me -- they make a lot of money from swaps and other non-exchange settled contracts' volume, especially if such contracts can be traded easily across banks. MarkItPartners is an excellent example of how all the banks made a lot of money through a consortium pushing a unified standard. Why try to make money off a patent when they can grow volume on their core product?
- gnarbarian 10y ago
  because they would love to unilaterally control critical pieces of next gen digital currencies enabling them to bludgeon competing standards / companies out of the market with IP licensing fees.
j1vms 10y ago
> GS thinks they will make more money on their own when they built up a nice patent portfolio in this space. So instead of contributing back to the community on a openly-developed technology (not talking about R3, but Satoshi's blockchain concept), they could decide that the best course of action is to patent encumber the shit out of it!
desult 10y ago
What patents? I just tried to find in the USPTO and nothing came up. Do you have a link?