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See? You keep at it. At what point I said the BBC article is to blame? That was you. You are making strong claims without supporting evidence or data. You men

See? You keep at it. At what point I said the BBC article is to blame? That was you. You are making strong claims without supporting evidence or data. You mention things like "when you dive into the studies" yet you don't show us and we have to believe you. What makes you different? Also I might be slightly biased against someone who starts claiming everyone else is pushing an agenda against him. It is an irrational bias, I admit, because of how I despise the far right / white supremacism. Again, this is irrational from my side as you might not be even close to that group, but you sounded very close to it: the chosen example, the insistence on a world wide agenda against your kind, the lack of supporting proof / evidence and your follow up that didn't make a lot of sense to me (might be my poor grasp of English language). Either way, I hope you're not offended and that you can see where I'm coming from and how your comment was perfect to illustrate op's claim.

tajen 10y ago
The proof of misinformation is the BBC article itself: It starts with an inconclusive study and ends with a definitive title. I could provide you with the hundreds of papers I've once stumbled upon[1], but it would be useless in convincing you because you don't acknowledge that articles like the BBC one discredits science. [1] Actually they're all printed under my desk. They undemonstrate every argument of the feminists. And no-one wants to review them because they (like you) don't agree with the conclusion. That's science in reverse: "Women are oppressed, everyone knows it, so arguments against women can't be reasonably true". If you accept to start with "Are women oppressed?", comme to my place and we'll review my documents together. In the meantime the BBC article is a fine example of what is wrong with science.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  It seems we're very far from each other and you have clearly made your mind up already. That BBC article is fairly correct on what you claim false. A group solving problems in 169ms is better than another one doing it in 177ms. On average. But you seem to want to dismiss some things to support your agenda. I don't know mate. I'm a male and I see almost daily situations where women can't feel comfortable. You might not want to consider them oppressed, but holy smokes they have to go through leaps of shit. Again, I'm not trying to convince you. It's just my anecdotal experience, which seems supported by studies. Of course you might have the opposite experience and can dig up supporting studies.
  - tajen 10y ago
    I understand that you have no opinion about this particular topic, and I like that you are trying to understand how a supposedly educated person can reach the conclusion I reach. By the way, thank you. > A group solving problems in 169s is clearly better than a group solving problems in 177s. Sure, but the BBC article is titled "Women 'better at multitasking' than men", which is a deformation. I would have no problem if the BBC article were "Women were 4.6% than men on a given multitasking test", because it would communicate how small the difference is. If I remember I discovered the article because of a BuzzFeed share titled something like "Yet another scientific study found that women are more clever than men, but they are still grossly underpaid", which is no less a stretch than the BBC article. Every word is factually correct, but they far from describe reality. Studies don't find that women are paid .77 per $1, if you take the time to read more than the title: That's an average all jobs confounded. When a study neutralizes by field, education, experience both in career and in the job, and time spent at work, they are fair to my eyes, but I havent found any yet. Averaging female factory workers with startup founders doesn't mean anything, but that becomes the headline of the newspapers and becomes an unquestionned truth, unfortunately. The fact that you "can imagine how women can be harassed at work" is the result of hundreds of newspapers making the same mistake in article titles: Have we equally researched and communicated whether men are subject to male-specific difficulties? What if we found a relationship between x3 suicide rate, x2 homelessness rate and x17 prison rate and being a male? Would you start doing something if there was a link? What if we gave funding for those studies a much as we give funding for woman-specific studies? If we could apply pure scientific rigor to analyzing males as much as women, I would bet my whole life's savings and 60% of all my future salaries that we'd find men are subject to more violence, physical and emotional, and more unfairness than women. If any day you start opening this can of worm, you'll notice that people don't accept your results, saying "because you have a grudge against women". If everyone could react to the title of such BBC articles by protesting for misrepresentating the study, then the science itself would get more credit.
    - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
      Hey, thank you for sharing your opinion. You seem to be abusing of whataboutism and straw manning in your comment. It's difficult to discuss when the goal posts are moved :) In any case, I especially wanted to follow up on two things: your assumption that I think women are harassed at work based on articles is wrong on so many levels. I do have family, friends, colleagues and I see them suffering struggles that I or other male friends or colleagues don't have to go through. I see this with my own eyes. The second is that you say males suffer more violence than women do. Yes, that's true. Who are however the ones causing such violence? But that doesn't change things. Men have been abusing their superior physical power to abuse women during history and even today in almost every part of the world. None of that undermines you as a person for being a white male. I am fully aware of the rampant numbers on male depression and suicide rates. I am also aware that males feel often less inclined to look for help when in trouble, including extreme situations like being raped. It is however the very same ideology that ostracise women the ones that will put pressure on you to "man up" and call you a pussy, a loser and a failure if you can't get a promotion, a submissive girlfriend or sustain a big stereotypical family with your salary. The very same people that cause your biggest worries are the same people that tell you the rest are to blame for those. Please take a moment to think about why there's so much psychological pressure on men to be career successful... It's the same root cause that ostracises women. We're in this together, please don't give hate a chance. PS: I'm not surprised an educated person can share your opinion. It has nothing to do with studies and knowledge. I don't live in a ivory tower :-)

tajen 10y ago

The proof of misinformation is the BBC article itself: It starts with an inconclusive study and ends with a definitive title. I could provide you with the hundreds of papers I've once stumbled upon[1], but it would be useless in convincing you because you don't acknowledge that articles like the BBC one discredits science. [1] Actually they're all printed under my desk. They undemonstrate every argument of the feminists. And no-one wants to review them because they (like you) don't agree with the conclusion. That's science in reverse: "Women are oppressed, everyone knows it, so arguments against women can't be reasonably true". If you accept to start with "Are women oppressed?", comme to my place and we'll review my documents together. In the meantime the BBC article is a fine example of what is wrong with science.

NetStrikeForce 10y ago
It seems we're very far from each other and you have clearly made your mind up already. That BBC article is fairly correct on what you claim false. A group solving problems in 169ms is better than another one doing it in 177ms. On average. But you seem to want to dismiss some things to support your agenda. I don't know mate. I'm a male and I see almost daily situations where women can't feel comfortable. You might not want to consider them oppressed, but holy smokes they have to go through leaps of shit. Again, I'm not trying to convince you. It's just my anecdotal experience, which seems supported by studies. Of course you might have the opposite experience and can dig up supporting studies.
- tajen 10y ago
  I understand that you have no opinion about this particular topic, and I like that you are trying to understand how a supposedly educated person can reach the conclusion I reach. By the way, thank you. > A group solving problems in 169s is clearly better than a group solving problems in 177s. Sure, but the BBC article is titled "Women 'better at multitasking' than men", which is a deformation. I would have no problem if the BBC article were "Women were 4.6% than men on a given multitasking test", because it would communicate how small the difference is. If I remember I discovered the article because of a BuzzFeed share titled something like "Yet another scientific study found that women are more clever than men, but they are still grossly underpaid", which is no less a stretch than the BBC article. Every word is factually correct, but they far from describe reality. Studies don't find that women are paid .77 per $1, if you take the time to read more than the title: That's an average all jobs confounded. When a study neutralizes by field, education, experience both in career and in the job, and time spent at work, they are fair to my eyes, but I havent found any yet. Averaging female factory workers with startup founders doesn't mean anything, but that becomes the headline of the newspapers and becomes an unquestionned truth, unfortunately. The fact that you "can imagine how women can be harassed at work" is the result of hundreds of newspapers making the same mistake in article titles: Have we equally researched and communicated whether men are subject to male-specific difficulties? What if we found a relationship between x3 suicide rate, x2 homelessness rate and x17 prison rate and being a male? Would you start doing something if there was a link? What if we gave funding for those studies a much as we give funding for woman-specific studies? If we could apply pure scientific rigor to analyzing males as much as women, I would bet my whole life's savings and 60% of all my future salaries that we'd find men are subject to more violence, physical and emotional, and more unfairness than women. If any day you start opening this can of worm, you'll notice that people don't accept your results, saying "because you have a grudge against women". If everyone could react to the title of such BBC articles by protesting for misrepresentating the study, then the science itself would get more credit.
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    Hey, thank you for sharing your opinion. You seem to be abusing of whataboutism and straw manning in your comment. It's difficult to discuss when the goal posts are moved :) In any case, I especially wanted to follow up on two things: your assumption that I think women are harassed at work based on articles is wrong on so many levels. I do have family, friends, colleagues and I see them suffering struggles that I or other male friends or colleagues don't have to go through. I see this with my own eyes. The second is that you say males suffer more violence than women do. Yes, that's true. Who are however the ones causing such violence? But that doesn't change things. Men have been abusing their superior physical power to abuse women during history and even today in almost every part of the world. None of that undermines you as a person for being a white male. I am fully aware of the rampant numbers on male depression and suicide rates. I am also aware that males feel often less inclined to look for help when in trouble, including extreme situations like being raped. It is however the very same ideology that ostracise women the ones that will put pressure on you to "man up" and call you a pussy, a loser and a failure if you can't get a promotion, a submissive girlfriend or sustain a big stereotypical family with your salary. The very same people that cause your biggest worries are the same people that tell you the rest are to blame for those. Please take a moment to think about why there's so much psychological pressure on men to be career successful... It's the same root cause that ostracises women. We're in this together, please don't give hate a chance. PS: I'm not surprised an educated person can share your opinion. It has nothing to do with studies and knowledge. I don't live in a ivory tower :-)