5 ms·

I agree. It's the instabilities and nonlinearities in analog audio that give it character. Now whether that's worth emulating, or even noticeable by most peopl

by dharma1 10y ago

I agree. It's the instabilities and nonlinearities in analog audio that give it character. Now whether that's worth emulating, or even noticeable by most people, I'm not sure. But I'm buying all analog, and mostly VCO synths

problems 10y ago
Curious if you'd notice similar from circuit emulator synths like Diva: https://www.u-he.com/cms/diva https://www.u-he.com/cms/diva
- louthy 10y ago
  The Diva is good, but doesn't sound like an analogue synth.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Where can I find information on simulating circuits -- the underlying algorithms and models? Does it take in account factors like temperature (I hope so)?
  - dharma1 10y ago
    Here's a good place to start - the blog of Urs, the guy who made Diva. https://urs.silvrback.com/ https://urs.silvrback.com/ Andy Cytomic is also doing good work on analogue filter modeling https://cytomic.com/index.php?q=technical-papers https://cytomic.com/index.php?q=technical-papers
    - Hydraulix989 10y ago
      This isn't analogue modelling though -- you're just using KVL/KCL to derive the transfer function H(w) and applying the same transfer function as a digital filter. It's literally the first thing I would do if I wanted to come up with something that sounded the least bit like the real thing. I was using my own FIR derivation of a third-order low-pass Butterworth filter to do software synthesis in 2008 while I was in high school. This is truly basic stuff. Real analogue modelling has things like noise, hysteresis, and a dependence on such broad factors as temperature and even EM fields.
      - Hydraulix989 10y ago
        I guess I should have done my own digging. THIS (and really anything Spice does) is REAL analog modelling: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f03a/310c40a48be62206ce5ff1352bd61e88599e.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f03a/310c40a48be62206ce5ff1...
louthy 10y ago
> or even noticeable by most people, I think it is, but on quite a subliminal level. As well as producing music I also DJ, and I notice a marked increase in energy levels of people on a dancefloor when I play tracks that I know are made with analogue synths and drum machines. Two weeks ago I was playing at a club in London and played Donnato Dozzy - Gol [1], it's so simple as a track, almost nothing to it, but it's a real 303 and 808 that drives the track. I had tons of people asking me what it was, and I could see the room had got more energetic. I even had this conversation about it after the night. So even for those that don't know exactly why, I think they do feel. I've seen it happen lots of times. > But I'm buying all analog, and mostly VCO synths It's still there with DCOs in my opinion. They're cleaner for sure, but they still have that sound. My Juno 106 is one hell of a synth, and that's DCOs, as is my Waldorf Pulse 2 (which for almost no money is a great sounding machine), but then I have the VCOs: Moog Sub 37, Roland TB-303, Roland SH-101, and the incredible DSI OB-6. They're all amazing sound. Especially compared to my digital synths (Nord Lead A1, Roland Super JV 1080). I've stopped using plugins completely now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZzZ1jdvIyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZzZ1jdvIyM
- dharma1 10y ago
  Nice track (Gol). I agree, in a stripped down setting the characteristics are more exposed, and digital synths can get boring quick. DCO - I like them too, I just have enough of them already (MKS-70, MKS-50, JX-3P, Cheetah MS6). Might pick up the new Behringer 12 poly DCO if it's good, but that'll be enough DCO for me. Still plenty of room for VCO synths though, I've got 6-7 VCO mono synths but they are all small or racked and sound very different :)
  - louthy 10y ago
    Behringer's name is mud in audio circles. You sure you want to go there?
    - dharma1 10y ago
      I'm not really a brand snob - whatever sounds good. They got a bad name for ripping off circuit designs, but there is some Behringer gear that does the job. The deepmind 12 is designed by ex-Midas/Klark Teknik engineers (Behringer bought them) and Uli has been wanting to release an analog synth for ages - I think it'll be alright, will reserve judgement. It'll probably sound too clean and will end up buying vintage VCO synths instead though :)
sly010 10y ago
IANAM, but would it be so hard to just mix in a minuscule amount of perlin noise here and there?

by dharma1 10y ago

problems 10y ago

Curious if you'd notice similar from circuit emulator synths like Diva: https://www.u-he.com/cms/diva https://www.u-he.com/cms/diva

louthy 10y ago
The Diva is good, but doesn't sound like an analogue synth.
Hydraulix989 10y ago
Where can I find information on simulating circuits -- the underlying algorithms and models? Does it take in account factors like temperature (I hope so)?
- dharma1 10y ago
  Here's a good place to start - the blog of Urs, the guy who made Diva. https://urs.silvrback.com/ https://urs.silvrback.com/ Andy Cytomic is also doing good work on analogue filter modeling https://cytomic.com/index.php?q=technical-papers https://cytomic.com/index.php?q=technical-papers
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    This isn't analogue modelling though -- you're just using KVL/KCL to derive the transfer function H(w) and applying the same transfer function as a digital filter. It's literally the first thing I would do if I wanted to come up with something that sounded the least bit like the real thing. I was using my own FIR derivation of a third-order low-pass Butterworth filter to do software synthesis in 2008 while I was in high school. This is truly basic stuff. Real analogue modelling has things like noise, hysteresis, and a dependence on such broad factors as temperature and even EM fields.
    - Hydraulix989 10y ago
      I guess I should have done my own digging. THIS (and really anything Spice does) is REAL analog modelling: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f03a/310c40a48be62206ce5ff1352bd61e88599e.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f03a/310c40a48be62206ce5ff1...

louthy 10y ago

> or even noticeable by most people, I think it is, but on quite a subliminal level. As well as producing music I also DJ, and I notice a marked increase in energy levels of people on a dancefloor when I play tracks that I know are made with analogue synths and drum machines. Two weeks ago I was playing at a club in London and played Donnato Dozzy - Gol [1], it's so simple as a track, almost nothing to it, but it's a real 303 and 808 that drives the track. I had tons of people asking me what it was, and I could see the room had got more energetic. I even had this conversation about it after the night. So even for those that don't know exactly why, I think they do feel. I've seen it happen lots of times. > But I'm buying all analog, and mostly VCO synths It's still there with DCOs in my opinion. They're cleaner for sure, but they still have that sound. My Juno 106 is one hell of a synth, and that's DCOs, as is my Waldorf Pulse 2 (which for almost no money is a great sounding machine), but then I have the VCOs: Moog Sub 37, Roland TB-303, Roland SH-101, and the incredible DSI OB-6. They're all amazing sound. Especially compared to my digital synths (Nord Lead A1, Roland Super JV 1080). I've stopped using plugins completely now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZzZ1jdvIyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZzZ1jdvIyM

dharma1 10y ago
Nice track (Gol). I agree, in a stripped down setting the characteristics are more exposed, and digital synths can get boring quick. DCO - I like them too, I just have enough of them already (MKS-70, MKS-50, JX-3P, Cheetah MS6). Might pick up the new Behringer 12 poly DCO if it's good, but that'll be enough DCO for me. Still plenty of room for VCO synths though, I've got 6-7 VCO mono synths but they are all small or racked and sound very different :)
- louthy 10y ago
  Behringer's name is mud in audio circles. You sure you want to go there?
  - dharma1 10y ago
    I'm not really a brand snob - whatever sounds good. They got a bad name for ripping off circuit designs, but there is some Behringer gear that does the job. The deepmind 12 is designed by ex-Midas/Klark Teknik engineers (Behringer bought them) and Uli has been wanting to release an analog synth for ages - I think it'll be alright, will reserve judgement. It'll probably sound too clean and will end up buying vintage VCO synths instead though :)

sly010 10y ago

IANAM, but would it be so hard to just mix in a minuscule amount of perlin noise here and there?