8 ms·

Who cares? Who uses these? You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in, type in your password on your devices and boom you never

Who cares? Who uses these? You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in, type in your password on your devices and boom you never think or worry about it again. There is no need for Apple to be in this market, there is no problem to be solved for 99.9% of people.

ceejayoz 10y ago
> You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in Time Warner charges $10/month for theirs, and they're awful.
DocTomoe 10y ago
> boom you never think or worry about it again. Experience tells me this is not actually the case. Provider-provided routers are a major PITA if you want them secure and stable.
bnastic 10y ago
I use one (Time Capsule), and have used them for years. They have a pretty convincing value add story... let alone the fact that I also have a few Express stations around the place for music streaming.
72deluxe 10y ago
I had a router from BT that despite having won awards, could not resolve its external IPv4 address internally. It knew what its external address was and knew that it had to DMZ everything to an internal address, but if you attempted to resolve the external address (expecting it to go to your DMZ'd machine), it'd fail. I also had a router from another UK ISP that would crash and hang if you sent it a malformed IP packet (ie put its respond-to address as itself); it'd go mental replying to itself and then processing the messages it sent to itself. Not quality. The EE broadband router I had would hand off its internal web admin session to external visitors if they connected whilst a web admin session was in progress. Yes, let's hand our internal web admin session page to an external visitor.... BT sent another hub that looked identical and worked correctly; underneath it was a Siemens instead of a Thompson I think. So all in all, I have found that the ISP boxes were never really finished, and some (like Sky's box) needed rebooting periodically as I recall, so buggy too.
- Vendan 10y ago
  > I had a router from BT that despite having won awards, could not resolve its external IPv4 address internally. It knew what its external address was and knew that it had to DMZ everything to an internal address, but if you attempted to resolve the external address (expecting it to go to your DMZ'd machine), it'd fail. to be fair, I've got $1000 cisco hardware that can't wrap the external IP like that...
  - jlgaddis 10y ago
    FWIW, they can... if you configure them correctly. same-security-traffic permit intra-interface static (inside,inside) ... should get you most (or all) of the way there.
- retromario 10y ago
  Does your BT hub still contain a backdoor? https://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm https://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    Mine is now an EE box (so who knows what lurks inside) - that link made for interesting reading!
Aaargh20318 10y ago
> You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in, type in your password on your devices and boom you never think or worry about it again. Usually, you don't even want to remove the PoS router you get from your ISP from it's box. In my experience no ISP ever gives away decent equipment, it's just the cheapest thing they could order in quantity. Another issue with an ISP-issued router is that you have no idea what they did and can do with it. I know of several ISP's that have full remote access to the routers they hand out. Basically, you risk exposing your entire home network.
- agentgt 10y ago
  For Verizon Fios you have no choice. I mean sure you can disable the wifi of the router and use an access point like I do but you have to use their router at some point in the chain. There are have been some guides to try to bypass the router and go strait to the OTN but it is extremely non trivial.
  - For_Iconoclasm 10y ago
    This is false if you're only using Fios for internet service. Verizon asked me if I was providing my own router, and I said yes. The tech who "installed" and activated my ONT confirmed that I was using my own router so that he could activate the ethernet port on the device. There was nothing to bypass—it fell within their expectations. I hear it's a challenge to avoid the standard Verizon router if you also have TV or phone service through Fios.
    - agentgt 10y ago
      It must be because I have TV through them because I literally begged them and offered other pricing to not use their router and they said it was not possible. I also confirmed this a while back on some forums but perhaps they have changed this. It is good to hear you had success. Do you have a residential or biz plan? Edit: Here is the link (I was mistaken and thought it was on a forum): http://theassociatespress.com/bypass-fios-router-entirely/ http://theassociatespress.com/bypass-fios-router-entirely/ Like I said before it is pretty non trivial and you have to plead your case to them to let it happen.
danieldk 10y ago
There is no need for Apple to be in this market, Of course there is a need. Apple has always been one of the first to use new WiFi standards, the Airports made these transfer speeds non-theoretical. My three year-old Airport still beats my 2016 cable modem royally on 802.11 AC. And this is not one of those cheapo cable modems (basically the latest and greatest Fritz!Box). A large chunk of Apple users that I know have an Airport or Time Capsule for these and other reasons.
jdc0589 10y ago
some routers provided by ISPs also broadcast public WIFI networks that any customer of the ISP can use. Not something I'm interested in; the last thing I want is more frequency congestion around my house.

ceejayoz 10y ago

> You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in Time Warner charges $10/month for theirs, and they're awful.

DocTomoe 10y ago

> boom you never think or worry about it again. Experience tells me this is not actually the case. Provider-provided routers are a major PITA if you want them secure and stable.

bnastic 10y ago

I use one (Time Capsule), and have used them for years. They have a pretty convincing value add story... let alone the fact that I also have a few Express stations around the place for music streaming.

72deluxe 10y ago

I had a router from BT that despite having won awards, could not resolve its external IPv4 address internally. It knew what its external address was and knew that it had to DMZ everything to an internal address, but if you attempted to resolve the external address (expecting it to go to your DMZ'd machine), it'd fail. I also had a router from another UK ISP that would crash and hang if you sent it a malformed IP packet (ie put its respond-to address as itself); it'd go mental replying to itself and then processing the messages it sent to itself. Not quality. The EE broadband router I had would hand off its internal web admin session to external visitors if they connected whilst a web admin session was in progress. Yes, let's hand our internal web admin session page to an external visitor.... BT sent another hub that looked identical and worked correctly; underneath it was a Siemens instead of a Thompson I think. So all in all, I have found that the ISP boxes were never really finished, and some (like Sky's box) needed rebooting periodically as I recall, so buggy too.

Vendan 10y ago
> I had a router from BT that despite having won awards, could not resolve its external IPv4 address internally. It knew what its external address was and knew that it had to DMZ everything to an internal address, but if you attempted to resolve the external address (expecting it to go to your DMZ'd machine), it'd fail. to be fair, I've got $1000 cisco hardware that can't wrap the external IP like that...
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  FWIW, they can... if you configure them correctly. same-security-traffic permit intra-interface static (inside,inside) ... should get you most (or all) of the way there.
retromario 10y ago
Does your BT hub still contain a backdoor? https://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm https://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  Mine is now an EE box (so who knows what lurks inside) - that link made for interesting reading!

Aaargh20318 10y ago

> You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in, type in your password on your devices and boom you never think or worry about it again. Usually, you don't even want to remove the PoS router you get from your ISP from it's box. In my experience no ISP ever gives away decent equipment, it's just the cheapest thing they could order in quantity. Another issue with an ISP-issued router is that you have no idea what they did and can do with it. I know of several ISP's that have full remote access to the routers they hand out. Basically, you risk exposing your entire home network.

agentgt 10y ago
For Verizon Fios you have no choice. I mean sure you can disable the wifi of the router and use an access point like I do but you have to use their router at some point in the chain. There are have been some guides to try to bypass the router and go strait to the OTN but it is extremely non trivial.
- For_Iconoclasm 10y ago
  This is false if you're only using Fios for internet service. Verizon asked me if I was providing my own router, and I said yes. The tech who "installed" and activated my ONT confirmed that I was using my own router so that he could activate the ethernet port on the device. There was nothing to bypass—it fell within their expectations. I hear it's a challenge to avoid the standard Verizon router if you also have TV or phone service through Fios.
  - agentgt 10y ago
    It must be because I have TV through them because I literally begged them and offered other pricing to not use their router and they said it was not possible. I also confirmed this a while back on some forums but perhaps they have changed this. It is good to hear you had success. Do you have a residential or biz plan? Edit: Here is the link (I was mistaken and thought it was on a forum): http://theassociatespress.com/bypass-fios-router-entirely/ http://theassociatespress.com/bypass-fios-router-entirely/ Like I said before it is pretty non trivial and you have to plead your case to them to let it happen.

danieldk 10y ago

There is no need for Apple to be in this market, Of course there is a need. Apple has always been one of the first to use new WiFi standards, the Airports made these transfer speeds non-theoretical. My three year-old Airport still beats my 2016 cable modem royally on 802.11 AC. And this is not one of those cheapo cable modems (basically the latest and greatest Fritz!Box). A large chunk of Apple users that I know have an Airport or Time Capsule for these and other reasons.

jdc0589 10y ago

some routers provided by ISPs also broadcast public WIFI networks that any customer of the ISP can use. Not something I'm interested in; the last thing I want is more frequency congestion around my house.