7 ms·

Skip the Soylent, Make a Meal Instead

46 points by randomgyatwork 10y ago

karmajunkie 10y ago
I can't tell if this is satirical or not. Is knowing how to shop and prepare a basic meal really such a problem today?
- randomgyatwork 10y ago
  Quck google search: https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=millennials%20don%27t%20cook https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&es...
  - karmajunkie 10y ago
    Thanks for the context. Half of me still wants to shake my head and go "kids these days" but I get the time-and-energy thing. My son just turned 8 and as part of his "annual review" (privilege/responsibility conversation we have around his birthday every year where he gets a slightly later bedtime and bigger chores)we added a chore to do the shopping, prepare and cook a meal once a week (with help, of course). I sincerely hope this isn't a problem he has when he gets older.
- colept 10y ago
  For singles yes. Everything is packaged so that you're either finding ways to use up ingredients or you end up throwing them away because they've expired. Some foodstuffs come in smaller servings which is a blessing but the costs add up.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    The key to not wasting food is to determine today's meal based on what's in your fridge, rather than a new recipe. Also, I'm aware that my plans change frequently, so I avoid buying much meat and fish -- enough for two meals, at most.
    - CmdrSprinkles 10y ago
      For meat and fish: Supermarkets tend to have a pound or two of chicken and other meats at reasonable prices which equates to 1-3 meals. A chicken breast (or a few thighs) easily holds up for a week or so in the fridge as long as you put it in a sealed container. And you can save a lot more money if you buy a larger pack, break it up into "meals", bag them, and freeze them. I am lazy and just do plastic-wrap -> freezer bag and give it the sniff test before cooking but smarter people use a more rigorous system.
- vog 10y ago
  Exactly that was my first reaction, too. Also, this makes a great analogy for software development and a very good point about Free Software (hands-on), proprietary software (you control at least the information flow into and out of that blackbox) and services (you have lost any control over where your personal and business data is routed through and sent to).
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    So to extend your analogy - if you're a normal, non-technical person, you don't care about the free/propertiary/SaaS distinction. You're not interested in reading or modifying the internals, nor you're interested in learning how to do it. You have your goals and want software that will best help you accomplish it. Just like some people aren't into coding, some people aren't that into cooking. One has to eat to survive, but this doesn't automatically make cooking interesting, especially on a daily basis. Many of us (myself included) simply want to get on to the eating part and save the time for something more interesting (be it reading books, playing games, building stuff, spending time with children...).
    - karmajunkie 10y ago
      I like the analogy, but I'd offer that those who like to eat without cooking are more akin to your average gamers, who get into the use of technology rather than its production. Personally, while I enjoy cooking sometimes, I generally don't like eating for its own sake—I have three or four simple meals that I could honestly stick with for 90% of my meals and I'd be happy enough. Not altogether healthy, mind you—they're mostly variations on carbs and cheese with not enough veggies nor protein—but thankfully my wife keeps me from regressing to my own devices there. :)
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Haha, same here. Left to my own devices, I mostly rotate between three or four meals that all share the same characteristic: they're tasty and most of their preparation time doesn't require attention. Drop the stuff into boiling water, wait 5 minutes, take it out - this kind of style. And similarly, it's my SO who makes sure I consume a healthy variety of vegetables ;).
- runn1ng 10y ago
  Speaking for myself I don't hate cooking meals I hate all the fuzz around it - getting ingredients - do I buy "organic"? is that expensive? how cheap should I go?; finding the right recipes - how do I compare 20 different ones from the web? Which are more healthy? Dietary recommendations are all over the place - high carb / low carb / high fat / low fat / vegan / paleo / I don't know what all is there.; finding out what I forgot to buy, throwing out the old stuff that are starting to rot in my fridge, then spending another hour cleaning all the mess... The cooking part is - at least for me - always the easiest - just follow the recipe. I hate the worrying before and after.
  - grzm 10y ago
    A lot of this fuzz would be tempered as you become more accustomed to cooking. In some ways what you're describing is similar to picking up a new computer language or learning a new system. Once you've been through the decision tree enough times, you've built yourself a well-worn path. If cooking is something you're interested in picking up, I'd recommend starting simply. Pick a couple of meals (maybe a breakfast and a dinner). Get used to them, then start cooking variations, then move on to other dishes. I'll admit, I can be satisfied eating the same meal on a regular basis. And this doesn't prevent you from going out, either. I've heard of people having good success with the Ti Ferriss' "The Four-Hour Chef". I'm sure there are other good references, either bound or online.
    - ebiester 10y ago
      I like The Four Hour Chef, but I don't feel like it's a great cookbook to learn from. It's more a book about learning a skill with food as a metaphor.
      - grzm 10y ago
        Considering that was the author's stated purpose, sounds like he achieved his goal :)
    - csydas 10y ago
      I would agree with this and expand with anecdotes. I am an average cook in the kitchen, usually leaving with all my fingers where they belong, a nice clean kitchen, and a meal that looks and tastes like I meant it to. I have a lot of dishes that are old-hand dishes; if my partner is coming home after a 12 hour day and needs food now, I have a menu of "ready when she's home" meals that are good and I know like the back of my hand. I dance around the kitchen, know how long the grain takes to cook, how long I need for prepping vegetables and spices, etc. this took a bit of practice get to this level of familiarity. Practicing and getting the core skills and ideas down gave me the leisure to experiment, to start tasting in my head what a finished product would be like, or aometimes just having a brute force list if you would of things that go well with ______. Meals I haven't done before are usually still easy because not every instruction and technique is new; usually it's a matter of "what do I need in what proportion compared to the other stuff?" This took a lot of cooking for myself to get comfortable with, and a lot of meals that ended up getting fried up with a pasta of some sort and eaten as a "messed that up" meal. The part where you start to just know how stuff works is when you know you're getting it, jus like any tech or code. You just make it and go and it's not something you have to think or plan about. A lot of the prep work you're fretting are decisions you will make eventually automatically. They're not that daunting and pretty soon instead of recipes dictating purchases, it will be the other way around; a kitchen full of the essentials you need and then sales or impulses deciding what you make, and the essentials just being tools you need to make it happen.
bpicolo 10y ago
While I can see that some set of people don't agree, I really love cooking. Love eating out at all sorts of restaurants too. Cooking gives you a unique opportunity to be experimental, algorithmic, and potentially experience a small part of a variety of cultures. The programming mindset maps very well to it. It's also great SO/family time when done jointly. For people who hate cooking, I recommend trying to find a recipe that seems out of your league. That's what really got me going originally. Nowadays I'm pretty confident trying to whip up nearly anything (though I'm not making fancy, artistic-looking dishes certainly). Home cooking has it's own challenges. Less space, still have a lot of cleaning, and can't magically divine all sorts of cooking oils and what have you because the scale makes it impractical. That said, cooking for 1 is a lot less exciting for me than cooking for 2+. If I were living alone I'd probably still eating packet Ramen a bunch.
- Vaskivo 10y ago
  I like cooking, but I don't cook often. Because I hate the fact that, with our limited body, we _have_ to eat. One day I may spend two hours having fun at the kitchen, and the following I'm eating instant food. I want to cook (and eat) when I want, not when I have to. And I feel this sentiment is taking me away from the kitchen.[0]. Alternatively, I also prefer to cook only for me. I can take the time I want. Retry as many times as I want. And don't have to take into account the other persons tastes. [0] And I know this is a juvenile sentiment. I have learned to deal with it but it's just too damn annoying.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    > [0] And I know this is a juvenile sentiment. I have learned to deal with it but it's just too damn annoying. I wouldn't say it's juvenile. Progress is about getting rid of the bullshit you don't like doing in order to have more time for things you like doing.
- vanwalj 10y ago
  As many of my friends, I love to eat and I love to cook, but unfortunately, my time, kitchen room and budget is limited. So I prefer by far for the same time/budget having let's say 3 poor (joylent/queal) meals and 1 excellent meal than 4 passable meals.
roq 10y ago
Making a meal is a science. Making a good, balanced, healthy meal is something everyone should know but I don't think everyone is willing to do so. It takes time, practice and patience. "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path" and cooking your meal every time!
newhere420 10y ago
Or alternatively, consider that other people may not have the same priorities as yourself. I say this as someone who cooks and prepares most meals from raw, fresh ingredients: it is time consuming, tiring and often boring. If you're a two parent household with very limited time, and you have to choose between spending that time with your children or spending it cooking - why is the virtuous choice necessarily to cook? To make tasty, varied, high quality food is not even always as cheap and healthy as one might imagine. Fresh ingredients go bad quickly, and can sometimes be difficult to source, so you have to plan carefully. Many of us live in small apartments with limited space for preparing food and small refrigerators. We work long days, and both adults need to work now. Saving time on planning, buying ingredients, cooking and washing dishes is very appealing. Why do many people think food should be immune from innovation? We have replaced manual clothes washing with automated washing machines, most people now take their car to a mechanic rather than mending it themselves.
- 01Michael10 10y ago
  Wait... You don't cook meals for your children but give them Soylent? You talk about doing things with your kids. Sitting down with kids and eating a meal is an important family bonding time. You analogies made no sense. The clothes and cars are get washed and fixed the same way. Soylent is NOT the same as eating real food.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    newhere420 didn't mention Soylent one way or the other. If I had to guess - and I do - I'd wager that his family just orders in or goes out for dinner more than others. And as a new parent myself, I can completely understand.
    - 01Michael10 10y ago
      Fair point and rereading the OP post it was stated they do prepare most meals. I read it as they used to prepare most meals. If that is case they do prepare most meals what was the OP's point? No one said one had to prepare all their meals. The title of the story should be changed... Liquid meals were mentioned but not Soylent specifically.
colept 10y ago
I gave up Soylent a couple weeks ago because of how many carbohydrates it has (33g per bottle). I would drink a bottle and the hunger would subside, but two hours later the appetite was much stronger. Since preparing my own meals, choosing low-carb, I'm hungry less and can go 4-5 hours between meals. Have never felt better.
- TrinaryWorksToo 10y ago
  This was a little hard for me to figure out,but somehow I'm losing weight by eating fewer carbs. It's hard sometimes to figure out exactly what I'm hungry for. If I eat veggies the hunger subsides, but then I get very hungry, fast. If I eat fats, the hunger doesn't go away, but I feel like it helps prevent hunger in the future. I've been eating to be satiated, because I know I have enough calories to live. I just found [this article](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224414002386 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224414...) and it seems to reflect what I personally experience.
weavie 10y ago
A couple of tomatoes, 1 cucumber, 2 peeled carrots, a lump of cheese, sweet potato microwaved for 5 minutes, tin of tuna or some lumps of beef or bacon quickly fried. Drizzle in olive oil, sprinkle a little salt. Preparing your own food doesn't have to be that complicated.
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  Open can, deposit contents in pan, heat in microwave for 5 minutes. Open box, deposit in container, add milk Take sandwich, apply peanut butter
jplahn 10y ago
Soylent (or more particularly Coffiest) has been perfect for filling the 3pm spot at work when I'm both tired and hungry. I used to head out for a $5 coffee and stay hungry, but now I can use Coffiest to do a decent enough job of satisfying both cravings while saving some money. That being said, I would never replace any of my other primary meals with it because I love cooking too much. I typically spend an hour or two on Sunday making two meals of 4 - 6 servings that will last me through the entire week and then I take off Friday and Saturday and eat out.
ZeroFries 10y ago
Or consider nature's meal replacements: milk and fruit juice. Believe it or not, this would be less hypoglycemic-prone than Soylent, since fructose is less insulinogenic than starch, and have a better micronutrient profile. Check out the work of Ray Peat if interested in learning more.
- kevinfc 10y ago
  I'm no where near an expert on the subject, But I have heard convincing arguments[1] that fructose is very bad for you (especially when concentrated in a fruit drink). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
  - ZeroFries 10y ago
    I'm not a biochemistry expert either, so I have to defer to the arguments of others. I find Ray Peat more convincing than Lustig. It also makes sense to me that fructose, especially from fruit, is incredibly healthy to humans, since pretty much every ape gets a good chunk of their calories from fruit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqoAhZtVmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqoAhZtVmg
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Wait what? How on Earth can milk and fruit juice cover all your nutritional needs, micronutrients and all?
  - ZeroFries 10y ago
    You might come up short on a few of the nutrients, but an egg or two, and some liver and oysters once a week cover the rest. It surprised me, too, how nutrient dense milk and orange juice are.
Tade0 10y ago
I don't agree with the premise of the article. I bake my own bread and it's no more difficult than making pancakes. Also much healthier since I use less than half the salt that's put into what you can get at the store.
SixSigma 10y ago
Get an electric pressure cooker and cook once a week.
- Tharkun 10y ago
  Meal prepping can be lots of fun. If you're in to that sort of thing, /r/MealPrepSunday has some pretty good suggestions.
JulianMorrison 10y ago
Soylent exists because people don't want to cook. Don't want the time sliced out of their day. Don't care about variety and flavour. Would be happy to ignore food as an issue. Telling them to cook really just amounts to ignoring their priorities.
angryredblock 10y ago
100% agree. I like having a smartphone with me because it allows me to do things I couldn't reasonably otherwise do -- but it can also be used as a crutch for things you don't really need a smartphone for. I've started looking for ways to solve problems that DON'T involve popping open a google window or launching yelp. Simple stuff like memorizing routes I want to take before I start so I can navigate with my eyes ahead rather than in my phone, asking friends for food recommendations, keeping eyes out for posters advertising upcoming events. For me, making life less convenient and reducing instant-gratification is helping me enjoy the ride more. (yes, this is 100% a first-world-problems comment)
rietta 10y ago
I have not been tempted by such products in the least. I frankly find it personally unappealing in the extreme. The easiest thing in the world to cook is eggs, which I could eat all the time. I also live within walking distance of not one, but two grocery stores. My wife likes to cook and pick out her favorite organic foods. I prefer to look at the unit price and go for the lowest. Restaurant food is nice, but it ends up being very much more expensive on a monthly basis if you eat it too much. Today is our anniversary and in the break between conference calls this morning, I've already been to the store and back with fresh cut steaks to put on the grill after work. We're going to eat so good tonight and at a fraction of the cost of a eating out for our special night which is appealing to both my wife and me.
eljimmy 10y ago
I'm amazed at how many people use Soylent. IMO its a very poor meal replacement. Their key ingredient is Maltodextrin which is a heavily processed sugar that is often marketed as a healthy complex carbohydrate. You may as well be pounding back dextrose (corn syrup). I urge any HN users that use Soylent to really give meal preparation a try. You can prepare a dozen health meals in half an hour on Sunday night and your lunches and snacks for a whole week will be good to go.
throwaway1280 10y ago
I'm a pretty reasonable cook, actually. I spent a couple of years challenging myself to improve: I can make a reasonable pizza with home-made base and sauce (albeit American deep pan style rather than Italian), I'm fond of cooking Chinese food (because in the UK takeaway Chinese is very hit-and-miss), and I enjoy baking. I haven't done any of that for years, because now I'm living with crippling depression, and I often face the choice of spending my energy for the day on work, on housework, on life maintenance, or on eating well. I only get to choose one at the most. So most days I live on ready meals, supermarket pizza, pasta, etc. I buy Joylent (EU version of Soylent) because I reckon it's got more nutritional value than most of the ready meals I'm eating, and it's very quick to make - useful on days when I have to drag myself out of the house and don't have time for breakfast. It's also cheap - which is good, because depression means that I don't get many billable hours worked these days. So, yeah. I'm probably nowhere near the common case here, but I just wanted to present a case study to show that not all of us meal-replacement users are just "people who haven't learned to cook properly yet" or "people who don't care about food". We're a diverse bunch.
- throwaway1280 10y ago
  Forgot to point out: I'm piscetarian as well. Which seems like a ridiculous self-imposed challenge ;) That makes getting ready-made food harder, too: my supermarket only does a couple of vegetarian/seafood ready-meals per category (two curries, three italian meals, no Chinese meals at all!) so I find myself eating a very monotonous diet anyway. Nevertheless, I don't use Joylent full-time: I just have a box in my cupboard for when I need an emergency meal or just can't face another plastic tub of macaroni cheese.
ebiester 10y ago
What bothers me about this anti-convenience backlash is that it comes from a "stop being lazy and make the time for something I think you should find important" approach. If people find value in it, they will take the time to cook. I learned to cook because I found value in it. Others don't, and that's okay. I really like that I can bring something to a pot luck and everyone likes it, or that I can bring joy to a friend for a meal -- that's something I value. If you don't value that, it's fine. We make choices. If you are on this site and value it but don't know how to start, take a class. Most people here are in a place where they can afford six weeks of classes to learn the basics. But doing it out of guilt is silly.
- randomgyatwork 10y ago
  Good advice on taking a class. What if people haven't thought of the benefits that this article is suggesting?
  - ebiester 10y ago
    It's entirely possible, but I've shared my story with hundreds of people and talked with them about cooking. This is less impressive than it sounds -- I've done a fair number of pot lucks and been in a fair number of conversations where I shared the story of how, why, and when I learned how to cook. It happened in multiple stages, but all of them happened when I was out on my own and got tired of eating out. First, with roommates, I learned how to cook the absolute basics. Then, I had another roommate that helped me expand my horizons. He was vegetarian, so I had to learn another set of cooking techniques I hadn't before. Then, I moved into my own apartment where I realized that I couldn't make the food I really wanted to eat. I started watching the food network obsessively, learning everything I could, and trying new things. However, it happened at the phase of life when I was ready for it. And when I've mentioned this in conversation, I don't remember anyone saying, "I don't need to know how to cook" or "I don't need to learn to cook more than the basics." It's "I don't have time," or "I don't enjoy cooking/cleaning," or "I'm too afraid to mess up." As I've grown older, it's changed. I'm around mostly people in their thirties and most people had the same experience as I did where they realized they had reached a point in life where they needed to learn to cook. Now, I realize that I'm a mediocre cook and anyone with a mere week in a decent restaurant is likely a better cook than me. However, I acquired a reputation of a good amateur cook in some circles. I couldn't imagine being in a place where I didn't cook well - it brings so much to my life. I just think the shaming over it all doesn't work because the motivations don't line up.
squeaky-clean 10y ago
I saw an ad for a kickstarter the other day. It was some durable, spill-resistant, stain-proof, neutral colored shirt that you were meant to wear most/all days of the week, instead of needing to choose your clothes or manage a big wardrobe. It used lines like "Don't you hate wasting 10-20 minutes every morning choosing your outfit?", "Don't you hate shopping and trying on clothes that probably won't fit?". And no, I can't say I've ever felt like that. I enjoy the time spent dressing myself. I like shopping for clothes and thrifting. That shirt basically wants to take away everything I like about clothes. I guess this is how other people feel about me "eating" mostly Soylent. They love food and don't understand how someone else would want to not spend their time choosing or preparing food, or how someone could eat the same thing every meal. Someone who would be interested in this shirt doesn't really care about changing up their looks everyday or their clothes looking unique. Just that they look decent and clean, and don't waste too much time or money doing so. And I don't necessarily care about my food being varied or flavorful, as long as it isn't unhealthy and is simple to prepare.
- randomgyatwork 10y ago
  My wardrobe consists of 1 pair of jeans, 5 t-shirts, 1 sweater, wear the jeans and sweater everyday, change the shirt.
  - adregan 10y ago
    Do you do laundry every 5 days? Maybe buy 5 more and stretch that to every 10 days.
    - randomgyatwork 10y ago
      Wear them at least twice before washing.
foodthrowaway73 10y ago
Skip the grocery store. Are our lives really getting better if we depend on other farmers for our most basic food requirements? In fact, skip agriculture entirely. Let's all become hunter gatherers again and return to our true human nature. Thought experiment: what do you imagine the diet of the average human will look like 100 years from now? 200? I'd wager that if your answer involves a grocery store, fresh produce, slaughtered livestock, etc. then you'll be wrong.
- randomgyatwork 10y ago
  Lets keep the dream alive!
foodthrowaway73 10y ago
Skip the grocery store. Are our lives really getting better if we depend on other farmers for our most basic food requirements? In fact, skip agriculture entirely. Let's all become hunter gatherers again and return to our true human nature. Thought experiment: what do you imagine the diet of the average human will look like 100 years from now? 200? I'd wager that if your answer involves a grocery store, fresh produce, slaughtered livestock, etc. then you're mistaken.
- yellowapple 10y ago
  There's a big difference between grocery shopping (where even within one store - let alone multiple stores - you have access to a mind-boggling variety of foods, brands, etc.) and a pre-packaged service like Soylent or Hello Fresh / Blue Apron / whatever else is out there. Not only is the number of available options significantly greater, but the price is significantly lower. I'd wager that if your answer to the future human diet in that timescale relies primarily upon such pre-packaged subscription services, then you're even more mistaken.
lostmsu 10y ago
This article is complete and utter bullshit. "But think about the benefits, when you make your own meals you are saving money, rather than paying a chief, tip, delivery fee and markup, you only pay for the ingredients." If you think even a little bit, it is obvious, that producing prepared food at scale is more efficient than cooking it for yourself. "as you learn to cook you gain an important skill, you gain independence ... being self-sufficient" Right, drive yourself to work instead of using mass transit, make your own clothes, furniture, assemble your own microchips (you surely can't be a developer/admin without a microchip, so that one is very important to be self-sufficient). Don't forget to dig a hole and pump your own water! Fallout is coming, we all need to cook right now! Oh, and also it is much more interesting, than spending the same time on reading news/books or making something for other people!
- randomgyatwork 10y ago
  Being a little self-sufficient is better than not being self-sufficient. You've read one article with one suggestion and made a massive sweeping assumption about the authors intentions, good job.
  - lostmsu 10y ago
    Your statement about self-sufficiency is universally correct, but does not make sense in the context in its current form, because noone is 100% self-sufficient, but everyone is self-sufficient to a degree. The statement you actually meant (assuming you had thought settled), which is: "it is always better to be a little more self-sufficient" is definitely technically incorrect or at least extremely dubious. Also, irrespective of any assumption I might had (or not) about the author from a long post, you go much further assuming you know I had one, and that you know it from my single small comment half of which is original author's quotes.
    - randomgyatwork 10y ago
      I was a reductio ad absurdum argument.
dxbydt 10y ago
Say Jack choose to make a meal everyday, while Jill chooses the Soylent. If both Jack and Jill start at the same baseline weight and both eat the same number of calories via meal or via Soylent, who is going to lose weight faster ?

I can't tell if this is satirical or not. Is knowing how to shop and prepare a basic meal really such a problem today?

randomgyatwork 10y ago
Quck google search: https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=millennials%20don%27t%20cook https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&es...
- karmajunkie 10y ago
  Thanks for the context. Half of me still wants to shake my head and go "kids these days" but I get the time-and-energy thing. My son just turned 8 and as part of his "annual review" (privilege/responsibility conversation we have around his birthday every year where he gets a slightly later bedtime and bigger chores)we added a chore to do the shopping, prepare and cook a meal once a week (with help, of course). I sincerely hope this isn't a problem he has when he gets older.
colept 10y ago
For singles yes. Everything is packaged so that you're either finding ways to use up ingredients or you end up throwing them away because they've expired. Some foodstuffs come in smaller servings which is a blessing but the costs add up.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  The key to not wasting food is to determine today's meal based on what's in your fridge, rather than a new recipe. Also, I'm aware that my plans change frequently, so I avoid buying much meat and fish -- enough for two meals, at most.
  - CmdrSprinkles 10y ago
    For meat and fish: Supermarkets tend to have a pound or two of chicken and other meats at reasonable prices which equates to 1-3 meals. A chicken breast (or a few thighs) easily holds up for a week or so in the fridge as long as you put it in a sealed container. And you can save a lot more money if you buy a larger pack, break it up into "meals", bag them, and freeze them. I am lazy and just do plastic-wrap -> freezer bag and give it the sniff test before cooking but smarter people use a more rigorous system.
vog 10y ago
Exactly that was my first reaction, too. Also, this makes a great analogy for software development and a very good point about Free Software (hands-on), proprietary software (you control at least the information flow into and out of that blackbox) and services (you have lost any control over where your personal and business data is routed through and sent to).
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  So to extend your analogy - if you're a normal, non-technical person, you don't care about the free/propertiary/SaaS distinction. You're not interested in reading or modifying the internals, nor you're interested in learning how to do it. You have your goals and want software that will best help you accomplish it. Just like some people aren't into coding, some people aren't that into cooking. One has to eat to survive, but this doesn't automatically make cooking interesting, especially on a daily basis. Many of us (myself included) simply want to get on to the eating part and save the time for something more interesting (be it reading books, playing games, building stuff, spending time with children...).
  - karmajunkie 10y ago
    I like the analogy, but I'd offer that those who like to eat without cooking are more akin to your average gamers, who get into the use of technology rather than its production. Personally, while I enjoy cooking sometimes, I generally don't like eating for its own sake—I have three or four simple meals that I could honestly stick with for 90% of my meals and I'd be happy enough. Not altogether healthy, mind you—they're mostly variations on carbs and cheese with not enough veggies nor protein—but thankfully my wife keeps me from regressing to my own devices there. :)
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Haha, same here. Left to my own devices, I mostly rotate between three or four meals that all share the same characteristic: they're tasty and most of their preparation time doesn't require attention. Drop the stuff into boiling water, wait 5 minutes, take it out - this kind of style. And similarly, it's my SO who makes sure I consume a healthy variety of vegetables ;).
runn1ng 10y ago
Speaking for myself I don't hate cooking meals I hate all the fuzz around it - getting ingredients - do I buy "organic"? is that expensive? how cheap should I go?; finding the right recipes - how do I compare 20 different ones from the web? Which are more healthy? Dietary recommendations are all over the place - high carb / low carb / high fat / low fat / vegan / paleo / I don't know what all is there.; finding out what I forgot to buy, throwing out the old stuff that are starting to rot in my fridge, then spending another hour cleaning all the mess... The cooking part is - at least for me - always the easiest - just follow the recipe. I hate the worrying before and after.
- grzm 10y ago
  A lot of this fuzz would be tempered as you become more accustomed to cooking. In some ways what you're describing is similar to picking up a new computer language or learning a new system. Once you've been through the decision tree enough times, you've built yourself a well-worn path. If cooking is something you're interested in picking up, I'd recommend starting simply. Pick a couple of meals (maybe a breakfast and a dinner). Get used to them, then start cooking variations, then move on to other dishes. I'll admit, I can be satisfied eating the same meal on a regular basis. And this doesn't prevent you from going out, either. I've heard of people having good success with the Ti Ferriss' "The Four-Hour Chef". I'm sure there are other good references, either bound or online.
  - ebiester 10y ago
    I like The Four Hour Chef, but I don't feel like it's a great cookbook to learn from. It's more a book about learning a skill with food as a metaphor.
    - grzm 10y ago
      Considering that was the author's stated purpose, sounds like he achieved his goal :)
  - csydas 10y ago
    I would agree with this and expand with anecdotes. I am an average cook in the kitchen, usually leaving with all my fingers where they belong, a nice clean kitchen, and a meal that looks and tastes like I meant it to. I have a lot of dishes that are old-hand dishes; if my partner is coming home after a 12 hour day and needs food now, I have a menu of "ready when she's home" meals that are good and I know like the back of my hand. I dance around the kitchen, know how long the grain takes to cook, how long I need for prepping vegetables and spices, etc. this took a bit of practice get to this level of familiarity. Practicing and getting the core skills and ideas down gave me the leisure to experiment, to start tasting in my head what a finished product would be like, or aometimes just having a brute force list if you would of things that go well with ______. Meals I haven't done before are usually still easy because not every instruction and technique is new; usually it's a matter of "what do I need in what proportion compared to the other stuff?" This took a lot of cooking for myself to get comfortable with, and a lot of meals that ended up getting fried up with a pasta of some sort and eaten as a "messed that up" meal. The part where you start to just know how stuff works is when you know you're getting it, jus like any tech or code. You just make it and go and it's not something you have to think or plan about. A lot of the prep work you're fretting are decisions you will make eventually automatically. They're not that daunting and pretty soon instead of recipes dictating purchases, it will be the other way around; a kitchen full of the essentials you need and then sales or impulses deciding what you make, and the essentials just being tools you need to make it happen.

While I can see that some set of people don't agree, I really love cooking. Love eating out at all sorts of restaurants too. Cooking gives you a unique opportunity to be experimental, algorithmic, and potentially experience a small part of a variety of cultures. The programming mindset maps very well to it. It's also great SO/family time when done jointly. For people who hate cooking, I recommend trying to find a recipe that seems out of your league. That's what really got me going originally. Nowadays I'm pretty confident trying to whip up nearly anything (though I'm not making fancy, artistic-looking dishes certainly). Home cooking has it's own challenges. Less space, still have a lot of cleaning, and can't magically divine all sorts of cooking oils and what have you because the scale makes it impractical. That said, cooking for 1 is a lot less exciting for me than cooking for 2+. If I were living alone I'd probably still eating packet Ramen a bunch.

Vaskivo 10y ago
I like cooking, but I don't cook often. Because I hate the fact that, with our limited body, we _have_ to eat. One day I may spend two hours having fun at the kitchen, and the following I'm eating instant food. I want to cook (and eat) when I want, not when I have to. And I feel this sentiment is taking me away from the kitchen.[0]. Alternatively, I also prefer to cook only for me. I can take the time I want. Retry as many times as I want. And don't have to take into account the other persons tastes. [0] And I know this is a juvenile sentiment. I have learned to deal with it but it's just too damn annoying.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > [0] And I know this is a juvenile sentiment. I have learned to deal with it but it's just too damn annoying. I wouldn't say it's juvenile. Progress is about getting rid of the bullshit you don't like doing in order to have more time for things you like doing.
vanwalj 10y ago
As many of my friends, I love to eat and I love to cook, but unfortunately, my time, kitchen room and budget is limited. So I prefer by far for the same time/budget having let's say 3 poor (joylent/queal) meals and 1 excellent meal than 4 passable meals.

roq 10y ago

Making a meal is a science. Making a good, balanced, healthy meal is something everyone should know but I don't think everyone is willing to do so. It takes time, practice and patience. "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path" and cooking your meal every time!

newhere420 10y ago

Or alternatively, consider that other people may not have the same priorities as yourself. I say this as someone who cooks and prepares most meals from raw, fresh ingredients: it is time consuming, tiring and often boring. If you're a two parent household with very limited time, and you have to choose between spending that time with your children or spending it cooking - why is the virtuous choice necessarily to cook? To make tasty, varied, high quality food is not even always as cheap and healthy as one might imagine. Fresh ingredients go bad quickly, and can sometimes be difficult to source, so you have to plan carefully. Many of us live in small apartments with limited space for preparing food and small refrigerators. We work long days, and both adults need to work now. Saving time on planning, buying ingredients, cooking and washing dishes is very appealing. Why do many people think food should be immune from innovation? We have replaced manual clothes washing with automated washing machines, most people now take their car to a mechanic rather than mending it themselves.

01Michael10 10y ago
Wait... You don't cook meals for your children but give them Soylent? You talk about doing things with your kids. Sitting down with kids and eating a meal is an important family bonding time. You analogies made no sense. The clothes and cars are get washed and fixed the same way. Soylent is NOT the same as eating real food.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  newhere420 didn't mention Soylent one way or the other. If I had to guess - and I do - I'd wager that his family just orders in or goes out for dinner more than others. And as a new parent myself, I can completely understand.
  - 01Michael10 10y ago
    Fair point and rereading the OP post it was stated they do prepare most meals. I read it as they used to prepare most meals. If that is case they do prepare most meals what was the OP's point? No one said one had to prepare all their meals. The title of the story should be changed... Liquid meals were mentioned but not Soylent specifically.

colept 10y ago

I gave up Soylent a couple weeks ago because of how many carbohydrates it has (33g per bottle). I would drink a bottle and the hunger would subside, but two hours later the appetite was much stronger. Since preparing my own meals, choosing low-carb, I'm hungry less and can go 4-5 hours between meals. Have never felt better.

TrinaryWorksToo 10y ago
This was a little hard for me to figure out,but somehow I'm losing weight by eating fewer carbs. It's hard sometimes to figure out exactly what I'm hungry for. If I eat veggies the hunger subsides, but then I get very hungry, fast. If I eat fats, the hunger doesn't go away, but I feel like it helps prevent hunger in the future. I've been eating to be satiated, because I know I have enough calories to live. I just found [this article](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224414002386 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224414...) and it seems to reflect what I personally experience.

weavie 10y ago

A couple of tomatoes, 1 cucumber, 2 peeled carrots, a lump of cheese, sweet potato microwaved for 5 minutes, tin of tuna or some lumps of beef or bacon quickly fried. Drizzle in olive oil, sprinkle a little salt. Preparing your own food doesn't have to be that complicated.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago
Open can, deposit contents in pan, heat in microwave for 5 minutes. Open box, deposit in container, add milk Take sandwich, apply peanut butter

jplahn 10y ago

Soylent (or more particularly Coffiest) has been perfect for filling the 3pm spot at work when I'm both tired and hungry. I used to head out for a $5 coffee and stay hungry, but now I can use Coffiest to do a decent enough job of satisfying both cravings while saving some money. That being said, I would never replace any of my other primary meals with it because I love cooking too much. I typically spend an hour or two on Sunday making two meals of 4 - 6 servings that will last me through the entire week and then I take off Friday and Saturday and eat out.

ZeroFries 10y ago

Or consider nature's meal replacements: milk and fruit juice. Believe it or not, this would be less hypoglycemic-prone than Soylent, since fructose is less insulinogenic than starch, and have a better micronutrient profile. Check out the work of Ray Peat if interested in learning more.

kevinfc 10y ago
I'm no where near an expert on the subject, But I have heard convincing arguments[1] that fructose is very bad for you (especially when concentrated in a fruit drink). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
- ZeroFries 10y ago
  I'm not a biochemistry expert either, so I have to defer to the arguments of others. I find Ray Peat more convincing than Lustig. It also makes sense to me that fructose, especially from fruit, is incredibly healthy to humans, since pretty much every ape gets a good chunk of their calories from fruit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqoAhZtVmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqoAhZtVmg
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Wait what? How on Earth can milk and fruit juice cover all your nutritional needs, micronutrients and all?
- ZeroFries 10y ago
  You might come up short on a few of the nutrients, but an egg or two, and some liver and oysters once a week cover the rest. It surprised me, too, how nutrient dense milk and orange juice are.

Tade0 10y ago

I don't agree with the premise of the article. I bake my own bread and it's no more difficult than making pancakes. Also much healthier since I use less than half the salt that's put into what you can get at the store.

SixSigma 10y ago

Get an electric pressure cooker and cook once a week.

Tharkun 10y ago
Meal prepping can be lots of fun. If you're in to that sort of thing, /r/MealPrepSunday has some pretty good suggestions.

JulianMorrison 10y ago

Soylent exists because people don't want to cook. Don't want the time sliced out of their day. Don't care about variety and flavour. Would be happy to ignore food as an issue. Telling them to cook really just amounts to ignoring their priorities.

angryredblock 10y ago

100% agree. I like having a smartphone with me because it allows me to do things I couldn't reasonably otherwise do -- but it can also be used as a crutch for things you don't really need a smartphone for. I've started looking for ways to solve problems that DON'T involve popping open a google window or launching yelp. Simple stuff like memorizing routes I want to take before I start so I can navigate with my eyes ahead rather than in my phone, asking friends for food recommendations, keeping eyes out for posters advertising upcoming events. For me, making life less convenient and reducing instant-gratification is helping me enjoy the ride more. (yes, this is 100% a first-world-problems comment)

rietta 10y ago

I have not been tempted by such products in the least. I frankly find it personally unappealing in the extreme. The easiest thing in the world to cook is eggs, which I could eat all the time. I also live within walking distance of not one, but two grocery stores. My wife likes to cook and pick out her favorite organic foods. I prefer to look at the unit price and go for the lowest. Restaurant food is nice, but it ends up being very much more expensive on a monthly basis if you eat it too much. Today is our anniversary and in the break between conference calls this morning, I've already been to the store and back with fresh cut steaks to put on the grill after work. We're going to eat so good tonight and at a fraction of the cost of a eating out for our special night which is appealing to both my wife and me.

eljimmy 10y ago

I'm amazed at how many people use Soylent. IMO its a very poor meal replacement. Their key ingredient is Maltodextrin which is a heavily processed sugar that is often marketed as a healthy complex carbohydrate. You may as well be pounding back dextrose (corn syrup). I urge any HN users that use Soylent to really give meal preparation a try. You can prepare a dozen health meals in half an hour on Sunday night and your lunches and snacks for a whole week will be good to go.

throwaway1280 10y ago

I'm a pretty reasonable cook, actually. I spent a couple of years challenging myself to improve: I can make a reasonable pizza with home-made base and sauce (albeit American deep pan style rather than Italian), I'm fond of cooking Chinese food (because in the UK takeaway Chinese is very hit-and-miss), and I enjoy baking. I haven't done any of that for years, because now I'm living with crippling depression, and I often face the choice of spending my energy for the day on work, on housework, on life maintenance, or on eating well. I only get to choose one at the most. So most days I live on ready meals, supermarket pizza, pasta, etc. I buy Joylent (EU version of Soylent) because I reckon it's got more nutritional value than most of the ready meals I'm eating, and it's very quick to make - useful on days when I have to drag myself out of the house and don't have time for breakfast. It's also cheap - which is good, because depression means that I don't get many billable hours worked these days. So, yeah. I'm probably nowhere near the common case here, but I just wanted to present a case study to show that not all of us meal-replacement users are just "people who haven't learned to cook properly yet" or "people who don't care about food". We're a diverse bunch.

throwaway1280 10y ago
Forgot to point out: I'm piscetarian as well. Which seems like a ridiculous self-imposed challenge ;) That makes getting ready-made food harder, too: my supermarket only does a couple of vegetarian/seafood ready-meals per category (two curries, three italian meals, no Chinese meals at all!) so I find myself eating a very monotonous diet anyway. Nevertheless, I don't use Joylent full-time: I just have a box in my cupboard for when I need an emergency meal or just can't face another plastic tub of macaroni cheese.

ebiester 10y ago

What bothers me about this anti-convenience backlash is that it comes from a "stop being lazy and make the time for something I think you should find important" approach. If people find value in it, they will take the time to cook. I learned to cook because I found value in it. Others don't, and that's okay. I really like that I can bring something to a pot luck and everyone likes it, or that I can bring joy to a friend for a meal -- that's something I value. If you don't value that, it's fine. We make choices. If you are on this site and value it but don't know how to start, take a class. Most people here are in a place where they can afford six weeks of classes to learn the basics. But doing it out of guilt is silly.

randomgyatwork 10y ago
Good advice on taking a class. What if people haven't thought of the benefits that this article is suggesting?
- ebiester 10y ago
  It's entirely possible, but I've shared my story with hundreds of people and talked with them about cooking. This is less impressive than it sounds -- I've done a fair number of pot lucks and been in a fair number of conversations where I shared the story of how, why, and when I learned how to cook. It happened in multiple stages, but all of them happened when I was out on my own and got tired of eating out. First, with roommates, I learned how to cook the absolute basics. Then, I had another roommate that helped me expand my horizons. He was vegetarian, so I had to learn another set of cooking techniques I hadn't before. Then, I moved into my own apartment where I realized that I couldn't make the food I really wanted to eat. I started watching the food network obsessively, learning everything I could, and trying new things. However, it happened at the phase of life when I was ready for it. And when I've mentioned this in conversation, I don't remember anyone saying, "I don't need to know how to cook" or "I don't need to learn to cook more than the basics." It's "I don't have time," or "I don't enjoy cooking/cleaning," or "I'm too afraid to mess up." As I've grown older, it's changed. I'm around mostly people in their thirties and most people had the same experience as I did where they realized they had reached a point in life where they needed to learn to cook. Now, I realize that I'm a mediocre cook and anyone with a mere week in a decent restaurant is likely a better cook than me. However, I acquired a reputation of a good amateur cook in some circles. I couldn't imagine being in a place where I didn't cook well - it brings so much to my life. I just think the shaming over it all doesn't work because the motivations don't line up.

squeaky-clean 10y ago

I saw an ad for a kickstarter the other day. It was some durable, spill-resistant, stain-proof, neutral colored shirt that you were meant to wear most/all days of the week, instead of needing to choose your clothes or manage a big wardrobe. It used lines like "Don't you hate wasting 10-20 minutes every morning choosing your outfit?", "Don't you hate shopping and trying on clothes that probably won't fit?". And no, I can't say I've ever felt like that. I enjoy the time spent dressing myself. I like shopping for clothes and thrifting. That shirt basically wants to take away everything I like about clothes. I guess this is how other people feel about me "eating" mostly Soylent. They love food and don't understand how someone else would want to not spend their time choosing or preparing food, or how someone could eat the same thing every meal. Someone who would be interested in this shirt doesn't really care about changing up their looks everyday or their clothes looking unique. Just that they look decent and clean, and don't waste too much time or money doing so. And I don't necessarily care about my food being varied or flavorful, as long as it isn't unhealthy and is simple to prepare.

randomgyatwork 10y ago
My wardrobe consists of 1 pair of jeans, 5 t-shirts, 1 sweater, wear the jeans and sweater everyday, change the shirt.
- adregan 10y ago
  Do you do laundry every 5 days? Maybe buy 5 more and stretch that to every 10 days.
  - randomgyatwork 10y ago
    Wear them at least twice before washing.

foodthrowaway73 10y ago

Skip the grocery store. Are our lives really getting better if we depend on other farmers for our most basic food requirements? In fact, skip agriculture entirely. Let's all become hunter gatherers again and return to our true human nature. Thought experiment: what do you imagine the diet of the average human will look like 100 years from now? 200? I'd wager that if your answer involves a grocery store, fresh produce, slaughtered livestock, etc. then you'll be wrong.

randomgyatwork 10y ago
Lets keep the dream alive!

foodthrowaway73 10y ago

yellowapple 10y ago
There's a big difference between grocery shopping (where even within one store - let alone multiple stores - you have access to a mind-boggling variety of foods, brands, etc.) and a pre-packaged service like Soylent or Hello Fresh / Blue Apron / whatever else is out there. Not only is the number of available options significantly greater, but the price is significantly lower. I'd wager that if your answer to the future human diet in that timescale relies primarily upon such pre-packaged subscription services, then you're even more mistaken.

lostmsu 10y ago

This article is complete and utter bullshit. "But think about the benefits, when you make your own meals you are saving money, rather than paying a chief, tip, delivery fee and markup, you only pay for the ingredients." If you think even a little bit, it is obvious, that producing prepared food at scale is more efficient than cooking it for yourself. "as you learn to cook you gain an important skill, you gain independence ... being self-sufficient" Right, drive yourself to work instead of using mass transit, make your own clothes, furniture, assemble your own microchips (you surely can't be a developer/admin without a microchip, so that one is very important to be self-sufficient). Don't forget to dig a hole and pump your own water! Fallout is coming, we all need to cook right now! Oh, and also it is much more interesting, than spending the same time on reading news/books or making something for other people!

randomgyatwork 10y ago
Being a little self-sufficient is better than not being self-sufficient. You've read one article with one suggestion and made a massive sweeping assumption about the authors intentions, good job.
- lostmsu 10y ago
  Your statement about self-sufficiency is universally correct, but does not make sense in the context in its current form, because noone is 100% self-sufficient, but everyone is self-sufficient to a degree. The statement you actually meant (assuming you had thought settled), which is: "it is always better to be a little more self-sufficient" is definitely technically incorrect or at least extremely dubious. Also, irrespective of any assumption I might had (or not) about the author from a long post, you go much further assuming you know I had one, and that you know it from my single small comment half of which is original author's quotes.
  - randomgyatwork 10y ago
    I was a reductio ad absurdum argument.

dxbydt 10y ago

Say Jack choose to make a meal everyday, while Jill chooses the Soylent. If both Jack and Jill start at the same baseline weight and both eat the same number of calories via meal or via Soylent, who is going to lose weight faster ?